From jsmirz at comcast.net  Mon Apr 17 20:03:14 2006
From: jsmirz at comcast.net (Jeffrey Smirz)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:03:14 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>

The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely  
runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of  
talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing,  
except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a  
Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it  
comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993  
or any of the other great contributors.
Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN

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From syo237 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 20:21:19 2006
From: syo237 at gmail.com (Adam - SyTy Kingpin)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:21:19 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <90ba9c5e0604171821x3397b8f8m9b09c932e5d9ec27@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Jeff

>From one owner of one of Chris Pearsons formerly owned truck to another, the
Walbro 255 is the choice.

You can buy it from AutoPerformanceEngineering.com, around $110.  Ron
Gregory is the person to talk to if you need help.

Some other advice... if you plan to do it yourself, just make sure you do it
on a near empty tank. ::thumbsup::


On 4/17/06, Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.
> I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about
> Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional
> stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice
> is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo,
> grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.
>  Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
>
>
>


--
Adam
Syclone #237 - MYSY 8U
Typhoon #366 - ChromeBoy
www.rev-in.com
www.syty.net - Administrator
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 07:19:13 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:19:13 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>

Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, every stock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me $69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

Good luck,

Dennis O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 07:32:41 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<90ba9c5e0604171821x3397b8f8m9b09c932e5d9ec27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004301c662e4$30e0eb30$07f46942@coresys1>

ALSO,

be prepared to drain and flush-out you gas tank.  You're never gonna be able to get all those cooked sealer-chips outta the tank which are inevitably gonna fall into the inner chamber as you cut and chip through all that sloppy goo and glue those factory apes slathered over the upper retainer ring!  Don't risk clogging your brand-new filter-sock!  That alone will add to your long-term performance benefit.  And be careful not to chew-up those ears on that retainer-ring.  I was having so much trouble cutting through all that ossified goop I nearly ruined that soft-brass ring for proper reassembly onto the tank.  If I ever do this again I'm gonna invest in either a new retainer-ring from GM or else that special Kent-Moore spanner-wrench designed for this very purpose....

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Adam - SyTy Kingpin 
To: Jeffrey Smirz 
Cc: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Hey Jeff

>From one owner of one of Chris Pearsons formerly owned truck to another, the Walbro 255 is the choice.  

You can buy it from AutoPerformanceEngineering.com, around $110.  Ron Gregory is the person to talk to if you need help.

Some other advice... if you plan to do it yourself, just make sure you do it on a near empty tank. ::thumbsup::

 
On 4/17/06, Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote: 
  The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors. 

  Jeff
  Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
  Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
  Typhoon #1165
  Indy, IN

   

  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty






-- 
Adam
Syclone #237 - MYSY 8U
Typhoon #366 - ChromeBoy
www.rev-in.com
www.syty.net - Administrator 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 10:25:42 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:25:42 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
Message-ID: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>

Now,

I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm trying to determine whether or not the LOWERING BLOCKS on my 2nd hand Syclone (#773) are stock or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other mischief!).  Who knows for sure?

I checked through all those assembly drawings from PAS as well as the factory GMC diagrams in their Tech-Manual, and all these sources say there should be NO BLOX there.  Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all used to seeing in modern pick-ups.

I'm getting/gotten to the age where I'm more concerned about inadequate ride-height and scraping my pipes and such on severe-angle driveways and proliferating speed-bumps.  I just wanna make sure that if I remove those Blocks I won't be screwing up the pinion angle or violating some other sacred aspect of Syclonery.

Dennis O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From sytydave at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 10:44:37 2006
From: sytydave at gmail.com (Dave Goodhue)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:44:37 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
In-Reply-To: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
References: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
Message-ID: <ba3beb080604180844lb14b7b0vd8ede561046864be@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/18/06, DOlivares <seravilo at netzero.net> wrote:
>
>  I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm
> trying to determine whether or not the *LOWERING BLOCKS* on my 2nd hand
> Syclone (#773) are *stock* or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before
> me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other
> mischief!).  Who knows for sure?
>


Block are not stock, there should only be a small angled shim between the
axle and spring.


   Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the
> Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars
> which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the
> vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all
> used to seeing in modern pick-ups.
>


Syclone's are high riders in the rear from the factory, my truck is 30.25" &
30.5" to the rear arch cladding.

Dave
Sy #2661
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 17:44:14 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:44:14 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
References: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
	<ba3beb080604180844lb14b7b0vd8ede561046864be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901c66339$9ef57550$18f46942@coresys1>

Thanx,

I still have those wedge-shims too although I don't recall seeing them featured on any of the PAS drawings either.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dave Goodhue 
To: DOlivares 
Cc: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Lowering Blox...




On 4/18/06, DOlivares <seravilo at netzero.net> wrote: 
  I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm trying to determine whether or not the LOWERING BLOCKS on my 2nd hand Syclone (#773) are stock or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other mischief!).  Who knows for sure?


Block are not stock, there should only be a small angled shim between the axle and spring.



    Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all used to seeing in modern pick-ups. 


Syclone's are high riders in the rear from the factory, my truck is 30.25" & 30.5" to the rear arch cladding.

Dave
Sy #2661


 
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 18:31:42 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:31:42 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<90ba9c5e0604171821x3397b8f8m9b09c932e5d9ec27@mail.gmail.com>
	<004301c662e4$30e0eb30$07f46942@coresys1>
	<4E7B9B75-E246-4C7F-9E58-4ECB9D917AB8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002301c66340$4153de30$18f46942@coresys1>

Want trauma?

Wait till you try re-hooking those GAS LINES on top of the tank!  Ouch!  That was the worst of all operations!!  Even on a car-lift, I just could not get those AN-fittings rethreaded... wasn't tall or skinny enough to get in there in the blind!  Charlie Thrash had to end up coming to my assistance after 2 hours of frustrated failures.  I don't know how I got those flare-nuts in there and broke those things free, but putting them back is not going to be nearly as easy!!  And then trying to keep the fittings surgically CLEAN while you're working in the blind under the car too!!!  Bring lots of cans of Gumout!

You might do what I was advised to do from the beginning and that is REMOVE THE ENTIRE TRUCK-BED prior to beginning any tank surgery.  I'm still ambivalent about the whole thing even after going through the whole thing.  If you're up to removing all that harness and hardware-- good opportunity to replace body bushings with polyurethanes-- and have plenty of thuggish help on hand, you might want to consider this feat.  Theoretically, you could do the whole pump R&R from the top of the Tank and never have to undo one strap or shield-- or get anywhere near a car-lift.  However, when you consider the INEVITABILITY of fouling the Tank with all that DEBRIS....

You might be lucky enough to suction it all up from the top hole if all the chips are closely localized within the center chamber.  Mine were even in the outer chambers!  What a MESS!!  If you're not lucky... like me... you'll have to remove the whole tank anyway!

All you will have solved is the access-to-the-tank-top problem for reconnecting the gas lines, where you can be sure you can do it quickly and dirt-free... and without pulling your arms out of their sockets!  And with all that substantial extra work to pull and replace the bed, suspension, and harness...?

I don't think so.  Just suffer and take it like a man!  And you won't need to tie up your buddies' time either!  Only on Trucks TV do they have those fancy truck-bed lifts/cranes/cradles anyway....

Good luck again,

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Rats!  There's always SOMETHING to get in the way of a quick and positive experience.  Thanx for the heads-up.  

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:32 AM, DOlivares wrote:


  ALSO,

  be prepared to drain and flush-out you gas tank.  You're never gonna be able to get all those cooked sealer-chips outta the tank which are inevitably gonna fall into the inner chamber as you cut and chip through all that sloppy goo and glue those factory apes slathered over the upper retainer ring!  Don't risk clogging your brand-new filter-sock!  That alone will add to your long-term performance benefit.  And be careful not to chew-up those ears on that retainer-ring.  I was having so much trouble cutting through all that ossified goop I nearly ruined that soft-brass ring for proper reassembly onto the tank.  If I ever do this again I'm gonna invest in either a new retainer-ring from GM or else that special Kent-Moore spanner-wrench designed for this very purpose....

  D.O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Adam - SyTy Kingpin
  To: Jeffrey Smirz
  Cc: syty at syty.org
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  Hey Jeff

  From one owner of one of Chris Pearsons formerly owned truck to another, the Walbro 255 is the choice. 

  You can buy it from AutoPerformanceEngineering.com, around $110.  Ron Gregory is the person to talk to if you need help.

  Some other advice... if you plan to do it yourself, just make sure you do it on a near empty tank. ::thumbsup::

   
  On 4/17/06, Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:
    The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors. 

    Jeff
    Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
    Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
    Typhoon #1165
    Indy, IN

     

    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty






  -- 
  Adam
  Syclone #237 - MYSY 8U
  Typhoon #366 - ChromeBoy
  www.rev-in.com
  www.syty.net - Administrator



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty

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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 19:01:56 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:01:56 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>
	<5C0264B5-ECE6-454E-A4C9-3C5A32E1A87A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002b01c66344$7a0ff570$18f46942@coresys1>

OEM IS a Bosch.

Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end.  

As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....

Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different....  

Think about it,

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Thanx Dennis.
I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


  Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

  But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

  Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

  Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

  Good luck,

  Dennis O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: syty at syty.org
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
  Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

  Jeff
  Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
  Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
  Typhoon #1165
  Indy, IN





------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty


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From dalwine250 at comcast.net  Tue Apr 18 20:11:48 2006
From: dalwine250 at comcast.net (dalwine250 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:11:48 +0000
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>

loosening the upper fuel tank straps buys some room to rethread those fuel lines .there is my 2 cents.nice to meet all of you .  
                                                        dave

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net> 

OEM IS a Bosch.

Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end.  

As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....

Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different....  

Think about it,

D.O. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Thanx Dennis. 
I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just save
d yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

Good luck,

Dennis O. 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz
To: syty at syty.org
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN









_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:02:06 +0000
Size: 642
Url: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060419/913e6fe6/attachment.mht 

From syrjr22 at tds.net  Tue Apr 18 21:48:42 2006
From: syrjr22 at tds.net (Sharon Routhier)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:48:42 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <006c01c6635b$c6539ce0$0400a8c0@sharon>

Hi all,
  While you're talking about fuel pumps... I changed to a walbro 225 some time ago and had to drop the tank 3 additional times that day to see if I could find why the pump was so loud. I gave up. Runs great but noisy. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Ron
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From loeryder at swbell.net  Tue Apr 18 20:52:03 2006
From: loeryder at swbell.net (Jason Granger)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20060419015203.32410.qmail@web82011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Probably some of the best advice I got when doing a Ty
fuel pump repeatedly was to use bungee straps to hold
the tank in place once you get the metal straps off.
It allows you room to shift the tank around while
getting the lines back on.

That and make sure the tank is as empty as you can get
it. I hooked up to the fuel rail and put +12V on the
fuel pump test lead, of course thats not an option
with a dead pump. But even a weak one will empty the
tank for you.

Also, before tearing into it spray the fitings down
with some PB Blaster, or whatever penetrating oil you
prefer.
It will lessen the chance of twisting the stock
brittle lines.

Use line wrenches not open ends to prevent rounding.

And I have heard more than once that removing the bed
on a Sy was easier than dropping the tank on the Ty.
Then again I never took Dennis' disertation on foreign
debris into consideration. On second thought I never
flushed any of the tanks I have done.

Part of the voltage supply problem at the pump is that
# of junctions/switches the power has to go through
before reaching the terminals at the pump. Look at any
SyTy schematic. There is a major voltage drop through
the park/neutral safety switch, the Oil pressure
switch and the ignition cylinder.
A common fix is to not rely on the marginal stock
wiring and use it only to trigger a relay supplying
fresh juice right off the alternator. This helps
insure you get whats at your alternator is AT the
pump. not -3V.

Best of luck getting it swapped, and go for the
Walbro.
It is designed to outperform the undersized stock pump
in every aspect.

Jason

--- Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:

> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor
> thing barely  
> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow. 
> There was a lot of  
> talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning
> on racing,  
> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm
> leaning towards a  
> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is
> welcome.....particularly if it  
> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon,
> bullyhart, merk1993  
> or any of the other great contributors.
> Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
> 


Jas'
92 Typhoon #2407
www.sytyauthority.net


From bullyhart at aol.com  Wed Apr 19 03:24:13 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:24:13 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <20060419015203.32410.qmail@web82011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C831A1C69598B0-1084-46F4@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>

I was getting about 10 volts at my pump, with the stock wiring and 90,000 miles.  I made my own relay system to get proper voltage to my fuel pump.  The Racetronix harness is nice and easy to install, but I chose to do my own relay setup.  Either way, I also recommend going with a quality relay to power the pump when replacing it.
Daron
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Granger <loeryder at swbell.net>


Part of the voltage supply problem at the pump is that
# of junctions/switches the power has to go through
before reaching the terminals at the pump. Look at any
SyTy schematic. There is a major voltage drop through
the park/neutral safety switch, the Oil pressure
switch and the ignition cylinder.
A common fix is to not rely on the marginal stock
wiring and use it only to trigger a relay supplying
fresh juice right off the alternator. This helps
insure you get whats at your alternator is AT the
pump. not -3V.

Best of luck getting it swapped, and go for the
Walbro.
It is designed to outperform the undersized stock pump
in every aspect.

Jason

--- Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:

> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor
> thing barely  
> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow. 
> There was a lot of  
> talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning
> on racing,  
> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm
> leaning towards a  
> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is
> welcome.....particularly if it  
> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon,
> bullyhart, merk1993  
> or any of the other great contributors.
> Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
> 


Jas'
92 Typhoon #2407
www.sytyauthority.net
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From jsmirz at comcast.net  Wed Apr 19 06:37:43 2006
From: jsmirz at comcast.net (Jeffrey Smirz)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:37:43 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>
References: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15D95CBA-8380-4435-B715-9151690B7B89@comcast.net>

Right you are Dave!  Had to loosen that strap just to get 'em OUT,  
much less back IN.  The sad part is that one of the tank-end fittings  
was frozen to it's tube.  The threaded connection broke loose easily  
but I twisted off the tank-end fitting, so now I have to replace that  
entire tank insert.
Jeff



On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:11 PM, dalwine250 at comcast.net wrote:

> loosening the upper fuel tank straps buys some room to rethread  
> those fuel lines .there is my 2 cents.nice to meet all of you .
>                                                         dave
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
> OEM IS a Bosch.
>
> Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best  
> of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my  
> TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I  
> drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR  
> never helped me on the top end.
>
> As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give  
> an impression....
>
> Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic  
> exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless  
> you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand  
> National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want  
> to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring  
> and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call  
> 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from  
> Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too  
> bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down  
> again....
> I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC  
> Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with  
> that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves--  
> I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm  
> currently running.  Your plans might be different....
>
> Think about it,
>
> D.O.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeffrey Smirz
> To: DOlivares
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump
>
> Thanx Dennis.
> I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed  
> the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.
>
> You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If  
> so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of  
> messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and  
> wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:
>
>> Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,
>>
>> But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches  
>> strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it,  
>> everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but  
>> POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for  
>> smooth full-throttle response.
>>
>> Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro  
>> 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69  
>> delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out  
>> over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further  
>> diaphragm depression from turbo b oost!  I'll never go back to  
>> Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra  
>> pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well  
>> save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer  
>> weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel  
>> Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of  
>> Walbros....
>>
>> Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy"  
>> FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last  
>> November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and  
>> not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run  
>> with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel- 
>> pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief  
>> pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual  
>> culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in  
>> the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never  
>> throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in  
>> business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your  
>> start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING  
>> THE FUEL-RETURN LI NE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or  
>> something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same  
>> low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of  
>> 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic  
>> labor!
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Dennis O.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeffrey Smirz
>> To: syty at syty.org
>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
>> Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
>>
>> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely  
>> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot  
>> of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing,  
>> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a  
>> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it  
>> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart,  
>> merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.
>> Jeff
>> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
>> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
>> Typhoon #1165
>> Indy, IN
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syty mailing list
>> Syty at syty.org
>> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
>
>
> From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
> Date: April 18, 2006 8:02:06 PM EDT
> To: "Jeffrey Smirz" <jsmirz at comcast.net>
> Cc: syty at syty.org
> Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
>
>

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From bullyhart at aol.com  Wed Apr 19 08:31:32 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:31:32 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <15D95CBA-8380-4435-B715-9151690B7B89@comcast.net>
References: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>
	<15D95CBA-8380-4435-B715-9151690B7B89@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8C831CCB4DFC5D8-1D50-4A2B@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com>

The fuel lines that are in the fuel pump hanger assembly are actually pretty easy to replace.  I did a "how to" years ago..
 
 http://www.sytyarchives.com/howto/viewarticle.php?article_name=fuel_line_repair.php&dir=engine
 
It doesnt cost much, you just need a little blue flame action, some solder and the fuel line...
 
Daron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net>
To: dalwine250 at comcast.net
Cc: syty at syty.org
Sent: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:37:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Right you are Dave!  Had to loosen that strap just to get 'em OUT, much less back IN.  The sad part is that one of the tank-end fittings was frozen to it's tube.  The threaded connection broke loose easily but I twisted off the tank-end fitting, so now I have to replace that entire tank insert.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:11 PM, dalwine250 at comcast.net wrote:


loosening the upper fuel tank straps buys some room to rethread those fuel lines .there is my 2 cents.nice to meet all of you .  
                                                        dave
 
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net> 

OEM IS a Bosch.
 
Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end.  
 
As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....
 
Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different....  
 
Think about it,
 
D.O. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Thanx Dennis. 
I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,
 
But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.
 
Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo b oost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....
 
Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LI NE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!
 
Good luck,
 
Dennis O. 


 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz
To: syty at syty.org
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN









_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty





From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
Date: April 18, 2006 8:02:06 PM EDT
To: "Jeffrey Smirz" <jsmirz at comcast.net>
Cc: syty at syty.org
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump




_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty





= 
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 11:51:07 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
References: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
	<54501232-6FD4-4738-80B1-6D4C10DA960A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002601c663d1$74e8db10$08f46942@coresys1>

Thanx,

I'll be taking 'em out soon... soon as I can reconfigure a new axle-hook-up for that Roadmaster aux-spring deal I've had on there since 2001.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Lowering Blox...


I'm lucky enough to have a showroom stock Sy with only 5K on the clock.
I concur with SyTyDave:  the blocks are NOT stock.  POP goes the weasel!
I also concur that the stock Sy is a high rider, a scosh higher in the rear than the front.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 11:25 AM, DOlivares wrote:


  Now,

  I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm trying to determine whether or not the LOWERING BLOCKS on my 2nd hand Syclone (#773) are stock or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other mischief!).  Who knows for sure?

  I checked through all those assembly drawings from PAS as well as the factory GMC diagrams in their Tech-Manual, and all these sources say there should be NO BLOX there.  Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all used to seeing in modern pick-ups.

  I'm getting/gotten to the age where I'm more concerned about inadequate ride-height and scraping my pipes and such on severe-angle driveways and proliferating speed-bumps.  I just wanna make sure that if I remove those Blocks I won't be screwing up the pinion angle or violating some other sacred aspect of Syclonery.

  Dennis O. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty

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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 12:11:03 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:11:03 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <20060419015203.32410.qmail@web82011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c663d4$3e3587f0$08f46942@coresys1>

I used a car-lift and had access to a couple of those 6' screw-jacks which I was able to use to precisely locate that tank into any posture I wanted-- both while lowering and re-hooking it.  When I think of all the screw-tweaking I had to do to get that tank into the position I wanted it, bungee-cords might have been a better bet....  Next time!

I also pre-soaked all those fittings with KROIL, which outperforms PB Blaster and 'WAY-outperforms Liquid Wrench, WD-40, etc.

Finally, "dissertation" has two S's in it!

Ever-Helpful Denny
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jason Granger 
To: Jeffrey Smirz ; syty at syty.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Probably some of the best advice I got when doing a Ty
fuel pump repeatedly was to use bungee straps to hold
the tank in place once you get the metal straps off.
It allows you room to shift the tank around while
getting the lines back on.

That and make sure the tank is as empty as you can get
it. I hooked up to the fuel rail and put +12V on the
fuel pump test lead, of course thats not an option
with a dead pump. But even a weak one will empty the
tank for you.

Also, before tearing into it spray the fitings down
with some PB Blaster, or whatever penetrating oil you
prefer.
It will lessen the chance of twisting the stock
brittle lines.

Use line wrenches not open ends to prevent rounding.

And I have heard more than once that removing the bed
on a Sy was easier than dropping the tank on the Ty.
Then again I never took Dennis' disertation on foreign
debris into consideration. On second thought I never
flushed any of the tanks I have done.

Part of the voltage supply problem at the pump is that
# of junctions/switches the power has to go through
before reaching the terminals at the pump. Look at any
SyTy schematic. There is a major voltage drop through
the park/neutral safety switch, the Oil pressure
switch and the ignition cylinder.
A common fix is to not rely on the marginal stock
wiring and use it only to trigger a relay supplying
fresh juice right off the alternator. This helps
insure you get whats at your alternator is AT the
pump. not -3V.

Best of luck getting it swapped, and go for the
Walbro.
It is designed to outperform the undersized stock pump
in every aspect.

Jason

--- Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:

> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor
> thing barely  
> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow. 
> There was a lot of  
> talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning
> on racing,  
> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm
> leaning towards a  
> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is
> welcome.....particularly if it  
> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon,
> bullyhart, merk1993  
> or any of the other great contributors.
> Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
> 


Jas'
92 Typhoon #2407
www.sytyauthority.net
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 13:24:31 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:24:31 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <006c01c6635b$c6539ce0$0400a8c0@sharon>
Message-ID: <009001c663de$815e2c80$08f46942@coresys1>

Ron (short for ShaRON...?),

    They say that "pulsator" (which I permanently removed in favor of a straight piece of hose when I swapped-in the Walbro) is supposed to dampen noise and vibration.  I went for the FLOW; a little bit of noise-- like Rhoades-Lifter ticking-- is a mild turn-on!  Unfortunately, my new assembly makes just a bare buzz now and you really have to listen for it!  Once the engine starts, it's all drowned out.

    Your pulsator may be in or out, but if you're getting serious noise, one of your metal fuel lines may have shaken (or corroded) LOOSE or you fuel-sock-filter is butted-up against the bottom baffle of the Tank just enough to bounce that sheet metal into a CYMBAL-like noisemaker.

    Anything else sounds like it could only be a bearing or trapped-debris problem within the pump itself, in which case better line up a hot-spare now when you have the leisure of shopping for a good deal.  I (still) recommend EBay....

Happy Motoring,

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Sharon Routhier 
To: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Hi all,
  While you're talking about fuel pumps... I changed to a walbro 225 some time ago and had to drop the tank 3 additional times that day to see if I could find why the pump was so loud. I gave up. Runs great but noisy. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Ron


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 21:18:10 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:18:10 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>

My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....

I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: L1D2B at aol.com 
To: seravilo at netzero.net 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.

As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!

>From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.

Lynn D. Brown
SoCal and Denver
'87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon 
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Thu Apr 20 12:10:06 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:10:06 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>
	<5C0264B5-ECE6-454E-A4C9-3C5A32E1A87A@comcast.net>
	<002b01c66344$7a0ff570$18f46942@coresys1>
	<DCD696B4-75FF-4BE9-9D94-562899C022AD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c6649d$46ab6ac0$09f46942@coresys1>

THAT lower-mount is precisely where your problems may occur... depending on whether the mount or frame/cradle physically contacts-- either tight or bouncy-- the sheet metal of the inner, baffled gas chamber.  The BIG noise will most likely come from that resonating plate rather than the cradle that the pump sits in (unless it's loose or cracked).  Watch that overstuffed rubber pump-mount doesn't force the filter-sock-collar to jam into... or come within striking distance of that lower baffle plate.  I could see a mini-Big Sid Catlett doing some interesting cymbal solos on that inner structure if you don't watch the mechanical contact points....

Just be glad we don't have those old reciprocating fuel pumpz!  These screw-drives are much quieter... and efficient.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


OK, Bosch is OUT.


Racetronix says to leave the factory wiring in place, and they include a rubber pump mount that may help with Ron's noise factor.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:01 PM, DOlivares wrote:


  OEM IS a Bosch.

  Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end. 

  As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....

  Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
  I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different.... 

  Think about it,

  D.O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: DOlivares
  Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  Thanx Dennis.
  I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


  You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

  Jeff






  On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


    Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

    But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it,everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

    Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

    Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

    Good luck,

    Dennis O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeffrey Smirz
    To: syty at syty.org
    Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
    Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


    The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

    Jeff
    Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
    Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
    Typhoon #1165
    Indy, IN





----------------------------------------------------------------------------



    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty





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From bgfig at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 20 14:30:48 2006
From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] parts typhoon
Message-ID: <20060420193049.88253.qmail@web37806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Look on Ebay Item #4633113077
   

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
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From bgfig at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 20 14:40:32 2006
From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] parts typhoon
Message-ID: <20060420194032.92766.qmail@web37809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Look on Ebay Item #4633113077  93 Typhoon.... Rebuilt eng., new Turbo, rebuilt trans. Documentation on hand.

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Fri Apr 21 06:49:32 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:49:32 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>
	<000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>
	<003701c664d6$85198920$948c1b41@harrison>
Message-ID: <001901c66539$a864fe10$01f46942@coresys1>

Sorry, no.

Even if you were to drive here to San Antonio I still couldn't recommend anyone by experience or reputation-- which is why I do almost all work MYSELF.  I'd be driving back and forth between the Garage and the POOR HOUSE if I had to farm-out my vehicle maintenance!

D.O.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Funkey Monkey 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Got a dumb question for you.... Do you anyone in the Cincinnati area that works on Syclones that is real good?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: DOlivares 
  To: L1D2B at aol.com 
  Cc: syty at syty.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....

  I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.

  D.O. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: L1D2B at aol.com 
  To: seravilo at netzero.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.

  As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!

  From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.

  Lynn D. Brown
  SoCal and Denver
  '87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From bullyhart at aol.com  Fri Apr 21 09:02:10 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:02:10 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <001901c66539$a864fe10$01f46942@coresys1>
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>	<000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>	<003701c664d6$85198920$948c1b41@harrison>
	<001901c66539$a864fe10$01f46942@coresys1>
Message-ID: <8C83363515787B6-83C-3D66@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>

 Jeff Scott is near Louisville.  Try him out at www.jsmanufacturing.com
 
Daron
 

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Funkey Monkey 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Got a dumb question for you.... Do you anyone in the Cincinnati area that works on Syclones that is real good?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: DOlivares 
To: L1D2B at aol.com 
Cc: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....
 
I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.
 
D.O. 


 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: L1D2B at aol.com 
To: seravilo at netzero.net 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.
 
As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!
 
>From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.
 
Lynn D. Brown
SoCal and Denver
'87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon 



_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty

_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Fri Apr 21 12:46:13 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:46:13 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>
	<559D93D3-2462-48EC-BA3C-D09FE726E8E0@comcast.net>
	<002101c66497$e37961a0$09f46942@coresys1>
	<981E1479-356B-46FA-B944-29CA51C96A7B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003001c6656b$7c609bd0$13f46942@coresys1>

Is that a real car-lift or a couple o' pair o' jackstands (cinder blocks if you're in Appalachia or Arkansas)?  Do you have your own... or access to a private 'lift?

I'm still gonna put one in my garage when I get a few bucks ahead, but for short, day-long jobs I have a pal who'll lend me one of his commercial 'lifts.  But, he sure doesn't like over-niters... who does?  ...makes things tense at times.

There's NOTHING like having your own!  I got spoiled those 14 years at NASA.  IF you do in fact have your own car-lift in your own garage...

I WANT YOUR STREET ADDRESS RIGHT NOW!!!

Enviously yours, 

Dennis O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Alrighty then.  I suppose that also explains why the OEM pump is so quiet.
Well, I'm going to be a Walbro convert.  'Specially since Daron saved me around $200 with his 'how to' on the hangar tube I destroyed.
While I've got that tank out, it looks like a golden opportunity to replace those leaky OEM airshocks too.


Good thing I've got alternate transportation while that Ty is resting comfortably up on that lift.

Jeff






On Apr 20, 2006, at 12:31 PM, DOlivares wrote:


  GM/Delco just stamps their name on the Bosches they import....

  D.O.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: DOlivares
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  You're welcome Dennis.


  I only considered the Bosch 'cuz it's obviously better than GM and locally available for the quick fix.  Everyone (except "Ron") seems to like the Walbro, and although those "dissertations" about fried wiring scared me, the Racetronix harness seems the easiest, though more expensive, way to go.

  Jeff






  On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


    Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

    But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it,everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

    Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

    Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

    Good luck,

    Dennis O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeffrey Smirz
    To: syty at syty.org
    Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
    Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


    The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

    Jeff
    Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
    Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
    Typhoon #1165
    Indy, IN





----------------------------------------------------------------------------



    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty






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From seravilo at netzero.net  Fri Apr 21 14:00:13 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>
	<000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>
	<0C34E361-68D9-4647-97A1-AC2175439ED9@comcast.net>
	<003801c6649f$da5810a0$09f46942@coresys1>
	<C3625FC5-C676-4178-83F1-15AB727ED93A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c66575$d2ecef80$13f46942@coresys1>

Many an adventurous will ATTEMPT mandrel, full-radius bending with conventional shoes, dies, and rams, but they usually end up kinking or tearing the stainless.  Pretty good job if you wanna go mild-steel... and then change 'em out every 4 years or so.  

Regular steel 3" pipes on small-puffing engines like ours won't get and keep the tubes hot enough to bake-off all the water that splashes up, condenses overnight or comes through with combustion gasses.  3" pipes are just too much of a heat-sink for a low-revving small-cubes motor.  My Zoomies only lasted 2 years on my dual-exhausted Gremlin with 2.25" pipes; they literally FLAKED to pieces!

Rusty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


I hear you.  The guy I found has good tube bending equipment, but the ECM occupying the 5" between his ears is apparently missing a few capacitors and resistors.
I need to hook up with some local rodders to see where they get their tubes bent.  That's yet another rainy day.


Jeff






On Apr 20, 2006, at 1:28 PM, DOlivares wrote:


  Competent workers in 3" stainless are few and far between...

  and most outside Florida, California, and one Dallas outfit don't have access to the proper mandrel-bending jig required to do a true quality job in the first place.  I was gonna dump my Borla set-up on eBay (got like 11 bidders in 2 daze!) in favor of a custom-bent/hung job (topped/tipped-off by a Super-Trapp like I put on the TTA) that I was so sure I could procure at any racing-exhaust joint.  I still have that 7' stick of 3" tubing in its original JC Whippany box! 

  Of course, I haven't trolled the Internet in the past 3 years for such shops.  Maybe things have changed for the better.  I know where to buy the hydraulic mandrel-benders but thus far haven't been able to arm-twist any local hot-rodder into making the investment.  Here's a GREAT business opportunity for some of the more adventurous among you...!

  Local word-of-mouth on such 3-inch-stainless specialists is still dismal too.  It seems mostly folks just cobble-up a system from pieces of pre-bent sections... kinda how I used to do in the caveman daze....

  Good hunting,

  D.O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: DOlivares
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  Speakin' of exhaust and an RIP ATR, what's a guy to do?  My local pipe bender couldn't get a 3" to fit and did a lousy job of hanging the 2 1/2" (it bangs against the frame on certain bumps).

  Jeff






  On Apr 19, 2006, at 10:18 PM, DOlivares wrote:


    My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....

    I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.

    D.O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: L1D2B at aol.com
    To: seravilo at netzero.net
    Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
    Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


    As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.

    As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!

    From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.

    Lynn D. Brown
    SoCal and Denver
    '87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon
    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty



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From rebel_racer_ta at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 23 15:14:03 2006
From: rebel_racer_ta at yahoo.com (W M)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit
Message-ID: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know where one can get a cold air intake
kit for a Typhoon? I was planning to buy one from
Kenne Bell and when I finally saved enough money for
it, the guy working there informed me that they do not
sell anymore SyTy stuff.
Thanks
Will

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From seravilo at netzero.net  Sun Apr 23 17:02:52 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:02:52 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit
References: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c66721$ac0be440$0ef46942@coresys1>

No more Kennedy-Bell!

No more ATR!

Who bites the bullet next...?

We're DONE FOR, Batman!

See if there's anything left of Eastern Performance, a.k.a. ESP Products....

D.O.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: W M 
To: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit


Does anyone know where one can get a cold air intake
kit for a Typhoon? I was planning to buy one from
Kenne Bell and when I finally saved enough money for
it, the guy working there informed me that they do not
sell anymore SyTy stuff.
Thanks
Will

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From bullyhart at aol.com  Mon Apr 24 02:04:08 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 03:04:08 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit
In-Reply-To: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C835846A6719FC-EC-3208@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com>

While not on there website, contact www.tobefast.com and ask Jerry what your options are...
 
Daron 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: W M <rebel_racer_ta at yahoo.com>
To: syty at syty.org
Sent: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit


Does anyone know where one can get a cold air intake
kit for a Typhoon? I was planning to buy one from
Kenne Bell and when I finally saved enough money for
it, the guy working there informed me that they do not
sell anymore SyTy stuff.
Thanks
Will

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From DourtyB at missouri.edu  Thu Apr 27 09:41:11 2006
From: DourtyB at missouri.edu (Dourty, Brian R. (IATS))
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:41:11 -0500
Subject: [Syty] 2006 Nationals Registration open
Message-ID: <D034FE4256F6934695BD076284FF8C225DB5B3@UM-EMAIL10.um.umsystem.edu>

Registration is now open. Please visit http://www.sytynationals.com/ and
register.

Register and pay before April 30 for $50 (guest: $20)
Register and pay between May 1 and June 30 for $55 (guest: $25)
Register and pay between July 1 and August 31 for $60 (guest: $30)
After September 1 fees are $65 (guest: $40)
(on site registration only)

If you have any questions or problems with the site please email
info at sytynationals.com!

Thanks!
__________________
Brian Dourty
93' Ty #2170
SyTy Nationals Planning Committee
98,99,00,01,02,03,04,05 Nats
typhoon.got-boost.net 


From jsmirz at comcast.net  Mon Apr 17 20:03:14 2006
From: jsmirz at comcast.net (Jeffrey Smirz)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:03:14 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>

The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely  
runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of  
talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing,  
except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a  
Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it  
comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993  
or any of the other great contributors.
Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN

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From syo237 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 20:21:19 2006
From: syo237 at gmail.com (Adam - SyTy Kingpin)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:21:19 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <90ba9c5e0604171821x3397b8f8m9b09c932e5d9ec27@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Jeff

>From one owner of one of Chris Pearsons formerly owned truck to another, the
Walbro 255 is the choice.

You can buy it from AutoPerformanceEngineering.com, around $110.  Ron
Gregory is the person to talk to if you need help.

Some other advice... if you plan to do it yourself, just make sure you do it
on a near empty tank. ::thumbsup::


On 4/17/06, Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.
> I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about
> Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional
> stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice
> is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo,
> grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.
>  Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
>
>
>


--
Adam
Syclone #237 - MYSY 8U
Typhoon #366 - ChromeBoy
www.rev-in.com
www.syty.net - Administrator
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 07:19:13 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:19:13 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>

Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, every stock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me $69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

Good luck,

Dennis O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 07:32:41 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<90ba9c5e0604171821x3397b8f8m9b09c932e5d9ec27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004301c662e4$30e0eb30$07f46942@coresys1>

ALSO,

be prepared to drain and flush-out you gas tank.  You're never gonna be able to get all those cooked sealer-chips outta the tank which are inevitably gonna fall into the inner chamber as you cut and chip through all that sloppy goo and glue those factory apes slathered over the upper retainer ring!  Don't risk clogging your brand-new filter-sock!  That alone will add to your long-term performance benefit.  And be careful not to chew-up those ears on that retainer-ring.  I was having so much trouble cutting through all that ossified goop I nearly ruined that soft-brass ring for proper reassembly onto the tank.  If I ever do this again I'm gonna invest in either a new retainer-ring from GM or else that special Kent-Moore spanner-wrench designed for this very purpose....

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Adam - SyTy Kingpin 
To: Jeffrey Smirz 
Cc: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Hey Jeff

>From one owner of one of Chris Pearsons formerly owned truck to another, the Walbro 255 is the choice.  

You can buy it from AutoPerformanceEngineering.com, around $110.  Ron Gregory is the person to talk to if you need help.

Some other advice... if you plan to do it yourself, just make sure you do it on a near empty tank. ::thumbsup::

 
On 4/17/06, Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote: 
  The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors. 

  Jeff
  Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
  Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
  Typhoon #1165
  Indy, IN

   

  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty






-- 
Adam
Syclone #237 - MYSY 8U
Typhoon #366 - ChromeBoy
www.rev-in.com
www.syty.net - Administrator 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 10:25:42 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:25:42 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
Message-ID: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>

Now,

I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm trying to determine whether or not the LOWERING BLOCKS on my 2nd hand Syclone (#773) are stock or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other mischief!).  Who knows for sure?

I checked through all those assembly drawings from PAS as well as the factory GMC diagrams in their Tech-Manual, and all these sources say there should be NO BLOX there.  Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all used to seeing in modern pick-ups.

I'm getting/gotten to the age where I'm more concerned about inadequate ride-height and scraping my pipes and such on severe-angle driveways and proliferating speed-bumps.  I just wanna make sure that if I remove those Blocks I won't be screwing up the pinion angle or violating some other sacred aspect of Syclonery.

Dennis O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From sytydave at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 10:44:37 2006
From: sytydave at gmail.com (Dave Goodhue)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:44:37 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
In-Reply-To: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
References: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
Message-ID: <ba3beb080604180844lb14b7b0vd8ede561046864be@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/18/06, DOlivares <seravilo at netzero.net> wrote:
>
>  I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm
> trying to determine whether or not the *LOWERING BLOCKS* on my 2nd hand
> Syclone (#773) are *stock* or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before
> me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other
> mischief!).  Who knows for sure?
>


Block are not stock, there should only be a small angled shim between the
axle and spring.


   Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the
> Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars
> which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the
> vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all
> used to seeing in modern pick-ups.
>


Syclone's are high riders in the rear from the factory, my truck is 30.25" &
30.5" to the rear arch cladding.

Dave
Sy #2661
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 17:44:14 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:44:14 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
References: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
	<ba3beb080604180844lb14b7b0vd8ede561046864be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901c66339$9ef57550$18f46942@coresys1>

Thanx,

I still have those wedge-shims too although I don't recall seeing them featured on any of the PAS drawings either.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dave Goodhue 
To: DOlivares 
Cc: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Lowering Blox...




On 4/18/06, DOlivares <seravilo at netzero.net> wrote: 
  I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm trying to determine whether or not the LOWERING BLOCKS on my 2nd hand Syclone (#773) are stock or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other mischief!).  Who knows for sure?


Block are not stock, there should only be a small angled shim between the axle and spring.



    Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all used to seeing in modern pick-ups. 


Syclone's are high riders in the rear from the factory, my truck is 30.25" & 30.5" to the rear arch cladding.

Dave
Sy #2661


 
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 18:31:42 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:31:42 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<90ba9c5e0604171821x3397b8f8m9b09c932e5d9ec27@mail.gmail.com>
	<004301c662e4$30e0eb30$07f46942@coresys1>
	<4E7B9B75-E246-4C7F-9E58-4ECB9D917AB8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002301c66340$4153de30$18f46942@coresys1>

Want trauma?

Wait till you try re-hooking those GAS LINES on top of the tank!  Ouch!  That was the worst of all operations!!  Even on a car-lift, I just could not get those AN-fittings rethreaded... wasn't tall or skinny enough to get in there in the blind!  Charlie Thrash had to end up coming to my assistance after 2 hours of frustrated failures.  I don't know how I got those flare-nuts in there and broke those things free, but putting them back is not going to be nearly as easy!!  And then trying to keep the fittings surgically CLEAN while you're working in the blind under the car too!!!  Bring lots of cans of Gumout!

You might do what I was advised to do from the beginning and that is REMOVE THE ENTIRE TRUCK-BED prior to beginning any tank surgery.  I'm still ambivalent about the whole thing even after going through the whole thing.  If you're up to removing all that harness and hardware-- good opportunity to replace body bushings with polyurethanes-- and have plenty of thuggish help on hand, you might want to consider this feat.  Theoretically, you could do the whole pump R&R from the top of the Tank and never have to undo one strap or shield-- or get anywhere near a car-lift.  However, when you consider the INEVITABILITY of fouling the Tank with all that DEBRIS....

You might be lucky enough to suction it all up from the top hole if all the chips are closely localized within the center chamber.  Mine were even in the outer chambers!  What a MESS!!  If you're not lucky... like me... you'll have to remove the whole tank anyway!

All you will have solved is the access-to-the-tank-top problem for reconnecting the gas lines, where you can be sure you can do it quickly and dirt-free... and without pulling your arms out of their sockets!  And with all that substantial extra work to pull and replace the bed, suspension, and harness...?

I don't think so.  Just suffer and take it like a man!  And you won't need to tie up your buddies' time either!  Only on Trucks TV do they have those fancy truck-bed lifts/cranes/cradles anyway....

Good luck again,

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Rats!  There's always SOMETHING to get in the way of a quick and positive experience.  Thanx for the heads-up.  

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:32 AM, DOlivares wrote:


  ALSO,

  be prepared to drain and flush-out you gas tank.  You're never gonna be able to get all those cooked sealer-chips outta the tank which are inevitably gonna fall into the inner chamber as you cut and chip through all that sloppy goo and glue those factory apes slathered over the upper retainer ring!  Don't risk clogging your brand-new filter-sock!  That alone will add to your long-term performance benefit.  And be careful not to chew-up those ears on that retainer-ring.  I was having so much trouble cutting through all that ossified goop I nearly ruined that soft-brass ring for proper reassembly onto the tank.  If I ever do this again I'm gonna invest in either a new retainer-ring from GM or else that special Kent-Moore spanner-wrench designed for this very purpose....

  D.O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Adam - SyTy Kingpin
  To: Jeffrey Smirz
  Cc: syty at syty.org
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  Hey Jeff

  From one owner of one of Chris Pearsons formerly owned truck to another, the Walbro 255 is the choice. 

  You can buy it from AutoPerformanceEngineering.com, around $110.  Ron Gregory is the person to talk to if you need help.

  Some other advice... if you plan to do it yourself, just make sure you do it on a near empty tank. ::thumbsup::

   
  On 4/17/06, Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:
    The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors. 

    Jeff
    Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
    Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
    Typhoon #1165
    Indy, IN

     

    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty






  -- 
  Adam
  Syclone #237 - MYSY 8U
  Typhoon #366 - ChromeBoy
  www.rev-in.com
  www.syty.net - Administrator



------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty

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From seravilo at netzero.net  Tue Apr 18 19:01:56 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:01:56 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>
	<5C0264B5-ECE6-454E-A4C9-3C5A32E1A87A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002b01c66344$7a0ff570$18f46942@coresys1>

OEM IS a Bosch.

Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end.  

As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....

Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different....  

Think about it,

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Thanx Dennis.
I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


  Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

  But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

  Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

  Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

  Good luck,

  Dennis O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: syty at syty.org
  Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
  Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

  Jeff
  Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
  Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
  Typhoon #1165
  Indy, IN





------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty


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From dalwine250 at comcast.net  Tue Apr 18 20:11:48 2006
From: dalwine250 at comcast.net (dalwine250 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:11:48 +0000
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>

loosening the upper fuel tank straps buys some room to rethread those fuel lines .there is my 2 cents.nice to meet all of you .  
                                                        dave

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net> 

OEM IS a Bosch.

Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end.  

As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....

Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different....  

Think about it,

D.O. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Thanx Dennis. 
I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just save
d yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

Good luck,

Dennis O. 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz
To: syty at syty.org
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN









_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:02:06 +0000
Size: 642
Url: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060419/913e6fe6/attachment-0001.mht 

From syrjr22 at tds.net  Tue Apr 18 21:48:42 2006
From: syrjr22 at tds.net (Sharon Routhier)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:48:42 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
Message-ID: <006c01c6635b$c6539ce0$0400a8c0@sharon>

Hi all,
  While you're talking about fuel pumps... I changed to a walbro 225 some time ago and had to drop the tank 3 additional times that day to see if I could find why the pump was so loud. I gave up. Runs great but noisy. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Ron
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From loeryder at swbell.net  Tue Apr 18 20:52:03 2006
From: loeryder at swbell.net (Jason Granger)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20060419015203.32410.qmail@web82011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Probably some of the best advice I got when doing a Ty
fuel pump repeatedly was to use bungee straps to hold
the tank in place once you get the metal straps off.
It allows you room to shift the tank around while
getting the lines back on.

That and make sure the tank is as empty as you can get
it. I hooked up to the fuel rail and put +12V on the
fuel pump test lead, of course thats not an option
with a dead pump. But even a weak one will empty the
tank for you.

Also, before tearing into it spray the fitings down
with some PB Blaster, or whatever penetrating oil you
prefer.
It will lessen the chance of twisting the stock
brittle lines.

Use line wrenches not open ends to prevent rounding.

And I have heard more than once that removing the bed
on a Sy was easier than dropping the tank on the Ty.
Then again I never took Dennis' disertation on foreign
debris into consideration. On second thought I never
flushed any of the tanks I have done.

Part of the voltage supply problem at the pump is that
# of junctions/switches the power has to go through
before reaching the terminals at the pump. Look at any
SyTy schematic. There is a major voltage drop through
the park/neutral safety switch, the Oil pressure
switch and the ignition cylinder.
A common fix is to not rely on the marginal stock
wiring and use it only to trigger a relay supplying
fresh juice right off the alternator. This helps
insure you get whats at your alternator is AT the
pump. not -3V.

Best of luck getting it swapped, and go for the
Walbro.
It is designed to outperform the undersized stock pump
in every aspect.

Jason

--- Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:

> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor
> thing barely  
> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow. 
> There was a lot of  
> talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning
> on racing,  
> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm
> leaning towards a  
> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is
> welcome.....particularly if it  
> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon,
> bullyhart, merk1993  
> or any of the other great contributors.
> Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
> 


Jas'
92 Typhoon #2407
www.sytyauthority.net


From bullyhart at aol.com  Wed Apr 19 03:24:13 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:24:13 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <20060419015203.32410.qmail@web82011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C831A1C69598B0-1084-46F4@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>

I was getting about 10 volts at my pump, with the stock wiring and 90,000 miles.  I made my own relay system to get proper voltage to my fuel pump.  The Racetronix harness is nice and easy to install, but I chose to do my own relay setup.  Either way, I also recommend going with a quality relay to power the pump when replacing it.
Daron
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Granger <loeryder at swbell.net>


Part of the voltage supply problem at the pump is that
# of junctions/switches the power has to go through
before reaching the terminals at the pump. Look at any
SyTy schematic. There is a major voltage drop through
the park/neutral safety switch, the Oil pressure
switch and the ignition cylinder.
A common fix is to not rely on the marginal stock
wiring and use it only to trigger a relay supplying
fresh juice right off the alternator. This helps
insure you get whats at your alternator is AT the
pump. not -3V.

Best of luck getting it swapped, and go for the
Walbro.
It is designed to outperform the undersized stock pump
in every aspect.

Jason

--- Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:

> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor
> thing barely  
> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow. 
> There was a lot of  
> talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning
> on racing,  
> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm
> leaning towards a  
> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is
> welcome.....particularly if it  
> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon,
> bullyhart, merk1993  
> or any of the other great contributors.
> Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
> 


Jas'
92 Typhoon #2407
www.sytyauthority.net
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From jsmirz at comcast.net  Wed Apr 19 06:37:43 2006
From: jsmirz at comcast.net (Jeffrey Smirz)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:37:43 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>
References: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15D95CBA-8380-4435-B715-9151690B7B89@comcast.net>

Right you are Dave!  Had to loosen that strap just to get 'em OUT,  
much less back IN.  The sad part is that one of the tank-end fittings  
was frozen to it's tube.  The threaded connection broke loose easily  
but I twisted off the tank-end fitting, so now I have to replace that  
entire tank insert.
Jeff



On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:11 PM, dalwine250 at comcast.net wrote:

> loosening the upper fuel tank straps buys some room to rethread  
> those fuel lines .there is my 2 cents.nice to meet all of you .
>                                                         dave
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
> OEM IS a Bosch.
>
> Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best  
> of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my  
> TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I  
> drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR  
> never helped me on the top end.
>
> As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give  
> an impression....
>
> Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic  
> exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless  
> you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand  
> National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want  
> to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring  
> and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call  
> 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from  
> Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too  
> bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down  
> again....
> I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC  
> Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with  
> that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves--  
> I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm  
> currently running.  Your plans might be different....
>
> Think about it,
>
> D.O.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeffrey Smirz
> To: DOlivares
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump
>
> Thanx Dennis.
> I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed  
> the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.
>
> You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If  
> so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of  
> messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and  
> wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:
>
>> Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,
>>
>> But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches  
>> strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it,  
>> everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but  
>> POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for  
>> smooth full-throttle response.
>>
>> Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro  
>> 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69  
>> delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out  
>> over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further  
>> diaphragm depression from turbo b oost!  I'll never go back to  
>> Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra  
>> pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well  
>> save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer  
>> weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel  
>> Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of  
>> Walbros....
>>
>> Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy"  
>> FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last  
>> November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and  
>> not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run  
>> with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel- 
>> pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief  
>> pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual  
>> culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in  
>> the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never  
>> throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in  
>> business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your  
>> start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING  
>> THE FUEL-RETURN LI NE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or  
>> something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same  
>> low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of  
>> 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic  
>> labor!
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Dennis O.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeffrey Smirz
>> To: syty at syty.org
>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
>> Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
>>
>> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely  
>> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot  
>> of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing,  
>> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a  
>> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it  
>> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart,  
>> merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.
>> Jeff
>> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
>> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
>> Typhoon #1165
>> Indy, IN
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syty mailing list
>> Syty at syty.org
>> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
>
>
> From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
> Date: April 18, 2006 8:02:06 PM EDT
> To: "Jeffrey Smirz" <jsmirz at comcast.net>
> Cc: syty at syty.org
> Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
>
>

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From bullyhart at aol.com  Wed Apr 19 08:31:32 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:31:32 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <15D95CBA-8380-4435-B715-9151690B7B89@comcast.net>
References: <041920060111.10559.44458E540000B2FC0000293F2207021573CFCACD0A020799040E0B@comcast.net>
	<15D95CBA-8380-4435-B715-9151690B7B89@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8C831CCB4DFC5D8-1D50-4A2B@FWM-D39.sysops.aol.com>

The fuel lines that are in the fuel pump hanger assembly are actually pretty easy to replace.  I did a "how to" years ago..
 
 http://www.sytyarchives.com/howto/viewarticle.php?article_name=fuel_line_repair.php&dir=engine
 
It doesnt cost much, you just need a little blue flame action, some solder and the fuel line...
 
Daron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net>
To: dalwine250 at comcast.net
Cc: syty at syty.org
Sent: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:37:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Right you are Dave!  Had to loosen that strap just to get 'em OUT, much less back IN.  The sad part is that one of the tank-end fittings was frozen to it's tube.  The threaded connection broke loose easily but I twisted off the tank-end fitting, so now I have to replace that entire tank insert.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:11 PM, dalwine250 at comcast.net wrote:


loosening the upper fuel tank straps buys some room to rethread those fuel lines .there is my 2 cents.nice to meet all of you .  
                                                        dave
 
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net> 

OEM IS a Bosch.
 
Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end.  
 
As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....
 
Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different....  
 
Think about it,
 
D.O. 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Thanx Dennis. 
I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,
 
But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it, everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.
 
Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo b oost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....
 
Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LI NE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!
 
Good luck,
 
Dennis O. 


 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz
To: syty at syty.org
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

Jeff
Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
Typhoon #1165
Indy, IN









_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty





From: "DOlivares" <seravilo at netzero.net>
Date: April 18, 2006 8:02:06 PM EDT
To: "Jeffrey Smirz" <jsmirz at comcast.net>
Cc: syty at syty.org
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump




_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty





= 
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 11:51:07 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Lowering Blox...
References: <000d01c662fc$5ca1dc30$16f46942@coresys1>
	<54501232-6FD4-4738-80B1-6D4C10DA960A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002601c663d1$74e8db10$08f46942@coresys1>

Thanx,

I'll be taking 'em out soon... soon as I can reconfigure a new axle-hook-up for that Roadmaster aux-spring deal I've had on there since 2001.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Lowering Blox...


I'm lucky enough to have a showroom stock Sy with only 5K on the clock.
I concur with SyTyDave:  the blocks are NOT stock.  POP goes the weasel!
I also concur that the stock Sy is a high rider, a scosh higher in the rear than the front.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 11:25 AM, DOlivares wrote:


  Now,

  I have another question:  As a "late-bloomer" to the SyTy World, I'm trying to determine whether or not the LOWERING BLOCKS on my 2nd hand Syclone (#773) are stock or added by that weasel(s) who owned it before me (and backed-down the odometer better than 49k miles... among other mischief!).  Who knows for sure?

  I checked through all those assembly drawings from PAS as well as the factory GMC diagrams in their Tech-Manual, and all these sources say there should be NO BLOX there.  Moreover, after setting the front-ride-height to the requisite 28.5" the Truck definitely has a somewhat goofy stance-- like those '60s funny cars which looked like they were doing perpetual wheelies.  On some grades, the vehicle looks perfectly flat-- definitely not that dragster-rake we're all used to seeing in modern pick-ups.

  I'm getting/gotten to the age where I'm more concerned about inadequate ride-height and scraping my pipes and such on severe-angle driveways and proliferating speed-bumps.  I just wanna make sure that if I remove those Blocks I won't be screwing up the pinion angle or violating some other sacred aspect of Syclonery.

  Dennis O. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty

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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 12:11:03 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:11:03 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <20060419015203.32410.qmail@web82011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c663d4$3e3587f0$08f46942@coresys1>

I used a car-lift and had access to a couple of those 6' screw-jacks which I was able to use to precisely locate that tank into any posture I wanted-- both while lowering and re-hooking it.  When I think of all the screw-tweaking I had to do to get that tank into the position I wanted it, bungee-cords might have been a better bet....  Next time!

I also pre-soaked all those fittings with KROIL, which outperforms PB Blaster and 'WAY-outperforms Liquid Wrench, WD-40, etc.

Finally, "dissertation" has two S's in it!

Ever-Helpful Denny
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jason Granger 
To: Jeffrey Smirz ; syty at syty.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Probably some of the best advice I got when doing a Ty
fuel pump repeatedly was to use bungee straps to hold
the tank in place once you get the metal straps off.
It allows you room to shift the tank around while
getting the lines back on.

That and make sure the tank is as empty as you can get
it. I hooked up to the fuel rail and put +12V on the
fuel pump test lead, of course thats not an option
with a dead pump. But even a weak one will empty the
tank for you.

Also, before tearing into it spray the fitings down
with some PB Blaster, or whatever penetrating oil you
prefer.
It will lessen the chance of twisting the stock
brittle lines.

Use line wrenches not open ends to prevent rounding.

And I have heard more than once that removing the bed
on a Sy was easier than dropping the tank on the Ty.
Then again I never took Dennis' disertation on foreign
debris into consideration. On second thought I never
flushed any of the tanks I have done.

Part of the voltage supply problem at the pump is that
# of junctions/switches the power has to go through
before reaching the terminals at the pump. Look at any
SyTy schematic. There is a major voltage drop through
the park/neutral safety switch, the Oil pressure
switch and the ignition cylinder.
A common fix is to not rely on the marginal stock
wiring and use it only to trigger a relay supplying
fresh juice right off the alternator. This helps
insure you get whats at your alternator is AT the
pump. not -3V.

Best of luck getting it swapped, and go for the
Walbro.
It is designed to outperform the undersized stock pump
in every aspect.

Jason

--- Jeffrey Smirz <jsmirz at comcast.net> wrote:

> The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor
> thing barely  
> runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow. 
> There was a lot of  
> talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning
> on racing,  
> except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm
> leaning towards a  
> Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is
> welcome.....particularly if it  
> comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon,
> bullyhart, merk1993  
> or any of the other great contributors.
> Jeff
> Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
> Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
> Typhoon #1165
> Indy, IN
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Syty mailing list
> Syty at syty.org
> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
> 


Jas'
92 Typhoon #2407
www.sytyauthority.net
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 13:24:31 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:24:31 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <006c01c6635b$c6539ce0$0400a8c0@sharon>
Message-ID: <009001c663de$815e2c80$08f46942@coresys1>

Ron (short for ShaRON...?),

    They say that "pulsator" (which I permanently removed in favor of a straight piece of hose when I swapped-in the Walbro) is supposed to dampen noise and vibration.  I went for the FLOW; a little bit of noise-- like Rhoades-Lifter ticking-- is a mild turn-on!  Unfortunately, my new assembly makes just a bare buzz now and you really have to listen for it!  Once the engine starts, it's all drowned out.

    Your pulsator may be in or out, but if you're getting serious noise, one of your metal fuel lines may have shaken (or corroded) LOOSE or you fuel-sock-filter is butted-up against the bottom baffle of the Tank just enough to bounce that sheet metal into a CYMBAL-like noisemaker.

    Anything else sounds like it could only be a bearing or trapped-debris problem within the pump itself, in which case better line up a hot-spare now when you have the leisure of shopping for a good deal.  I (still) recommend EBay....

Happy Motoring,

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Sharon Routhier 
To: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Hi all,
  While you're talking about fuel pumps... I changed to a walbro 225 some time ago and had to drop the tank 3 additional times that day to see if I could find why the pump was so loud. I gave up. Runs great but noisy. Any thoughts?
Thanks, Ron


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Wed Apr 19 21:18:10 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:18:10 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>

My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....

I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: L1D2B at aol.com 
To: seravilo at netzero.net 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.

As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!

>From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.

Lynn D. Brown
SoCal and Denver
'87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon 
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Thu Apr 20 12:10:06 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:10:06 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>
	<5C0264B5-ECE6-454E-A4C9-3C5A32E1A87A@comcast.net>
	<002b01c66344$7a0ff570$18f46942@coresys1>
	<DCD696B4-75FF-4BE9-9D94-562899C022AD@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c6649d$46ab6ac0$09f46942@coresys1>

THAT lower-mount is precisely where your problems may occur... depending on whether the mount or frame/cradle physically contacts-- either tight or bouncy-- the sheet metal of the inner, baffled gas chamber.  The BIG noise will most likely come from that resonating plate rather than the cradle that the pump sits in (unless it's loose or cracked).  Watch that overstuffed rubber pump-mount doesn't force the filter-sock-collar to jam into... or come within striking distance of that lower baffle plate.  I could see a mini-Big Sid Catlett doing some interesting cymbal solos on that inner structure if you don't watch the mechanical contact points....

Just be glad we don't have those old reciprocating fuel pumpz!  These screw-drives are much quieter... and efficient.

D.O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


OK, Bosch is OUT.


Racetronix says to leave the factory wiring in place, and they include a rubber pump mount that may help with Ron's noise factor.

Jeff






On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:01 PM, DOlivares wrote:


  OEM IS a Bosch.

  Supposedly, legend has it, the Typhoon and TTA pumps were the best of the breed, but I can tell you from personal experience that my TTA pump was constantly starving out, even from the first day I drove it new in 1989.  All the eventual versions of adjustable-FPR never helped me on the top end. 

  As for the Typhoon stock pump... I haven't driven it enough to give an impression....

  Since you're gonna rewire that harness-- a bit of a romantic exercise in ultimate futility (like cc-ing your heads) unless you're installing a true high-amp pump(s) in a first-gen Grand National, which isn't necessary for street/strip-- you might want to consider the viable alternative of retaining the stock wiring and splicing-in one of those Boost-a-Volt (or whatever they call 'em nowdays) on-demand overdrivers for the FP.  I got one from Kennedy-Bell and it RESURRECTED my stock-schlock Bosch TTA FP.  Too bad I never got to drive it much before I tore the engine down again....
  I'm tempted to install one (basically, a 13-to-18-volt DC-DC Converter which is enabled by a boost-switch) on my 'Clone but with that fat Walbro 255 in there now-- which never chokes or starves-- I'm not sure it will do much good for the cam and injectors I'm currently running.  Your plans might be different.... 

  Think about it,

  D.O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: DOlivares
  Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  Thanx Dennis.
  I had originally thought the FPR to be the culprit, but confirmed the pump problem using the technique you (and the GM manual) describe.


  You seem to be suggesting that the OEM pump is already a Bosch?  If so, I'll definitely go Walbro, but based on last year's flurry of messages on the subject, I'll likely spring for the extra bucks and wait-time to get Racetronix' plug-n-play harness as well.

  Jeff






  On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


    Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

    But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it,everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

    Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

    Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

    Good luck,

    Dennis O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeffrey Smirz
    To: syty at syty.org
    Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
    Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


    The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

    Jeff
    Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
    Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
    Typhoon #1165
    Indy, IN





----------------------------------------------------------------------------



    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty





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From bgfig at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 20 14:30:48 2006
From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] parts typhoon
Message-ID: <20060420193049.88253.qmail@web37806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Look on Ebay Item #4633113077
   

		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
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From bgfig at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 20 14:40:32 2006
From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] parts typhoon
Message-ID: <20060420194032.92766.qmail@web37809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Look on Ebay Item #4633113077  93 Typhoon.... Rebuilt eng., new Turbo, rebuilt trans. Documentation on hand.

		
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Fri Apr 21 06:49:32 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:49:32 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>
	<000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>
	<003701c664d6$85198920$948c1b41@harrison>
Message-ID: <001901c66539$a864fe10$01f46942@coresys1>

Sorry, no.

Even if you were to drive here to San Antonio I still couldn't recommend anyone by experience or reputation-- which is why I do almost all work MYSELF.  I'd be driving back and forth between the Garage and the POOR HOUSE if I had to farm-out my vehicle maintenance!

D.O.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Funkey Monkey 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Got a dumb question for you.... Do you anyone in the Cincinnati area that works on Syclones that is real good?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: DOlivares 
  To: L1D2B at aol.com 
  Cc: syty at syty.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....

  I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.

  D.O. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: L1D2B at aol.com 
  To: seravilo at netzero.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.

  As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!

  From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.

  Lynn D. Brown
  SoCal and Denver
  '87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Syty mailing list
  Syty at syty.org
  http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From bullyhart at aol.com  Fri Apr 21 09:02:10 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:02:10 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
In-Reply-To: <001901c66539$a864fe10$01f46942@coresys1>
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>	<000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>	<003701c664d6$85198920$948c1b41@harrison>
	<001901c66539$a864fe10$01f46942@coresys1>
Message-ID: <8C83363515787B6-83C-3D66@FWM-D31.sysops.aol.com>

 Jeff Scott is near Louisville.  Try him out at www.jsmanufacturing.com
 
Daron
 

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Funkey Monkey 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Got a dumb question for you.... Do you anyone in the Cincinnati area that works on Syclones that is real good?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: DOlivares 
To: L1D2B at aol.com 
Cc: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....
 
I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.
 
D.O. 


 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: L1D2B at aol.com 
To: seravilo at netzero.net 
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.
 
As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!
 
>From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.
 
Lynn D. Brown
SoCal and Denver
'87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon 



_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty

_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From seravilo at netzero.net  Fri Apr 21 12:46:13 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:46:13 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <BA71C829-D267-444B-89F7-032088105227@comcast.net>
	<003501c662e2$4ec06380$07f46942@coresys1>
	<559D93D3-2462-48EC-BA3C-D09FE726E8E0@comcast.net>
	<002101c66497$e37961a0$09f46942@coresys1>
	<981E1479-356B-46FA-B944-29CA51C96A7B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003001c6656b$7c609bd0$13f46942@coresys1>

Is that a real car-lift or a couple o' pair o' jackstands (cinder blocks if you're in Appalachia or Arkansas)?  Do you have your own... or access to a private 'lift?

I'm still gonna put one in my garage when I get a few bucks ahead, but for short, day-long jobs I have a pal who'll lend me one of his commercial 'lifts.  But, he sure doesn't like over-niters... who does?  ...makes things tense at times.

There's NOTHING like having your own!  I got spoiled those 14 years at NASA.  IF you do in fact have your own car-lift in your own garage...

I WANT YOUR STREET ADDRESS RIGHT NOW!!!

Enviously yours, 

Dennis O.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


Alrighty then.  I suppose that also explains why the OEM pump is so quiet.
Well, I'm going to be a Walbro convert.  'Specially since Daron saved me around $200 with his 'how to' on the hangar tube I destroyed.
While I've got that tank out, it looks like a golden opportunity to replace those leaky OEM airshocks too.


Good thing I've got alternate transportation while that Ty is resting comfortably up on that lift.

Jeff






On Apr 20, 2006, at 12:31 PM, DOlivares wrote:


  GM/Delco just stamps their name on the Bosches they import....

  D.O.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: DOlivares
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  You're welcome Dennis.


  I only considered the Bosch 'cuz it's obviously better than GM and locally available for the quick fix.  Everyone (except "Ron") seems to like the Walbro, and although those "dissertations" about fried wiring scared me, the Racetronix harness seems the easiest, though more expensive, way to go.

  Jeff






  On Apr 18, 2006, at 8:19 AM, DOlivares wrote:


    Thanx for the advance-vote of confidence, Jeff,

    But so far my experience with Walbros versus stock-Bosches strongly favors the FORMER.  And now that I think about it,everystock-Bosch pump I ever owned has been high on longevity but POOR in providing that nice neck-snapping PRESSURE needed for smooth full-throttle response.

    Price-wise, they don't compare well either:  Putting that Walbro 255 in the tank (sans "pulsator") this past Summer only cost me$69 delivered based on a lucky eBay purchase!  That thing will put out over 93psi with my FPR cranked-in all the way-- and before further diaphragm depression from turbo boost!  I'll never go back to Bosch!!  I recommend you don't either.  Be not afraid!  That extra pressure/flow will be there when you most need it... and may well save your pistons during a full-throttle blast in peak-summer weather.  Check out the offerings on eBay under "Syclone Fuel Pump" for the best deals vis-a-vis regular Internet providers of Walbros....

    Although I've yet to publish my unique troubles with my "fancy" FPR-- which went BAD on me at the onset of cold weather here last November-- you might want to VERIFY that it is in fact your FP and not the FPR that is causing your woes.  I was struggling to run with only 11psi when I finally broke down and rigged-up my fuel-pressure hose & remote gauge.  I was heartbroken.  All that grief pulling the tank and the Walbro let me down...?  But, the actual culprit was a collapsed FPR diaphragm.  As soon as I switched-in the old mechanically adjustable FPR I used on my T-Trans Am (never throw away your "obsolete" performance parts!) we were back in business... never a speck of trouble since then!  Check out your start-up/idle pressure (no need to start the engine) by CLAMPING THE FUEL-RETURN LINE with a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips or something equally positive-gripping.  If you still get the same low readings IT IS THE PUMP.  But, if the pressure goes north of 40psi, you've just saved yourself a lot of money and/or acrobatic labor!

    Good luck,

    Dennis O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeffrey Smirz
    To: syty at syty.org
    Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:03 PM
    Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump


    The Ty's OEM pump is down to about 25 psi.  The poor thing barely runs.  I'm pumping and pulling the tank tomorrow.  There was a lot of talk about Walbros in Feb. '05, but I'm not planning on racing, except the occasional stoplight Grand Prix.  I'm leaning towards a Bosch replacement pump.  Advice is welcome.....particularly if it comes from the one and only serovilo, grtyphoon, bullyhart, merk1993 or any of the other great contributors.

    Jeff
    Syclone #950 (totaled in '99)
    Syclone #1654 (formerly Chris Pearson's)
    Typhoon #1165
    Indy, IN





----------------------------------------------------------------------------



    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty






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From seravilo at netzero.net  Fri Apr 21 14:00:13 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Fuel Pump
References: <3b3.b45719.3177360c@aol.com>
	<000d01c66420$acb08b20$0df46942@coresys1>
	<0C34E361-68D9-4647-97A1-AC2175439ED9@comcast.net>
	<003801c6649f$da5810a0$09f46942@coresys1>
	<C3625FC5-C676-4178-83F1-15AB727ED93A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c66575$d2ecef80$13f46942@coresys1>

Many an adventurous will ATTEMPT mandrel, full-radius bending with conventional shoes, dies, and rams, but they usually end up kinking or tearing the stainless.  Pretty good job if you wanna go mild-steel... and then change 'em out every 4 years or so.  

Regular steel 3" pipes on small-puffing engines like ours won't get and keep the tubes hot enough to bake-off all the water that splashes up, condenses overnight or comes through with combustion gasses.  3" pipes are just too much of a heat-sink for a low-revving small-cubes motor.  My Zoomies only lasted 2 years on my dual-exhausted Gremlin with 2.25" pipes; they literally FLAKED to pieces!

Rusty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeffrey Smirz 
To: DOlivares 
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


I hear you.  The guy I found has good tube bending equipment, but the ECM occupying the 5" between his ears is apparently missing a few capacitors and resistors.
I need to hook up with some local rodders to see where they get their tubes bent.  That's yet another rainy day.


Jeff






On Apr 20, 2006, at 1:28 PM, DOlivares wrote:


  Competent workers in 3" stainless are few and far between...

  and most outside Florida, California, and one Dallas outfit don't have access to the proper mandrel-bending jig required to do a true quality job in the first place.  I was gonna dump my Borla set-up on eBay (got like 11 bidders in 2 daze!) in favor of a custom-bent/hung job (topped/tipped-off by a Super-Trapp like I put on the TTA) that I was so sure I could procure at any racing-exhaust joint.  I still have that 7' stick of 3" tubing in its original JC Whippany box! 

  Of course, I haven't trolled the Internet in the past 3 years for such shops.  Maybe things have changed for the better.  I know where to buy the hydraulic mandrel-benders but thus far haven't been able to arm-twist any local hot-rodder into making the investment.  Here's a GREAT business opportunity for some of the more adventurous among you...!

  Local word-of-mouth on such 3-inch-stainless specialists is still dismal too.  It seems mostly folks just cobble-up a system from pieces of pre-bent sections... kinda how I used to do in the caveman daze....

  Good hunting,

  D.O.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jeffrey Smirz
  To: DOlivares
  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


  Speakin' of exhaust and an RIP ATR, what's a guy to do?  My local pipe bender couldn't get a 3" to fit and did a lousy job of hanging the 2 1/2" (it bangs against the frame on certain bumps).

  Jeff






  On Apr 19, 2006, at 10:18 PM, DOlivares wrote:


    My TTA stood up better to the Boost-a-Volt:  Already had a 140-amp alternator and Optima battery.  Results: NO MORE WOT-starve-outs!  Volt-boost comes in with the "Seventh-Injector" at 15psi....  Gotta get that thing off the cinder-blox... one of these daze....

    I still have one of those suped-up Bosch pumps, NIB, but I never was able to burn out my stock pump in the TTA for all the years I drove it.  However, whether I ever need to swap-out that pump or not, I'm not too afraid since I got rid of all that cross-tank restrictive exhaust system early on-- just like I dumped the spare-tire rig on the 'Clone-- to reduce weight and simplify under-car operations.

    D.O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: L1D2B at aol.com
    To: seravilo at netzero.net
    Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:43 AM
    Subject: Re: [Syty] Fuel Pump


    As I remember from ATR's (RIP) old catalog, there was a progression of GM FP regulators and I think also pumps in those years. The GN, and then the TTA and finally the SyTy's. ATR used to offer the upgraded GM models as an upgrade to the earlier models. But then as far as fuel pumps go, Walbro blew them all away.

    As far as the Boost - Volt devices. I've been trying them for at least 10 yrs. The original versions, from BGC (Bowling Green Customs for the younger guys) used to say U could crank them to 17 V. OK - I tried that on my TTA and blew out my Alternator and stock Fuel Pump. If U know anything about TTA's, I don't need to tell U how much work that made for me. I pray that I don't have to put another fuel pump in my TTA. I'll drill a hole in the top of my gas tank before I do another one!

    From what I hear, the newer versions on Volt Boosters limit the top voltage to 15 VDC.

    Lynn D. Brown
    SoCal and Denver
    '87 GN, '89 TTA, '93 Typhoon
    _______________________________________________
    Syty mailing list
    Syty at syty.org
    http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty



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From rebel_racer_ta at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 23 15:14:03 2006
From: rebel_racer_ta at yahoo.com (W M)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit
Message-ID: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know where one can get a cold air intake
kit for a Typhoon? I was planning to buy one from
Kenne Bell and when I finally saved enough money for
it, the guy working there informed me that they do not
sell anymore SyTy stuff.
Thanks
Will

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From seravilo at netzero.net  Sun Apr 23 17:02:52 2006
From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:02:52 -0500
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit
References: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c66721$ac0be440$0ef46942@coresys1>

No more Kennedy-Bell!

No more ATR!

Who bites the bullet next...?

We're DONE FOR, Batman!

See if there's anything left of Eastern Performance, a.k.a. ESP Products....

D.O.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: W M 
To: syty at syty.org 
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit


Does anyone know where one can get a cold air intake
kit for a Typhoon? I was planning to buy one from
Kenne Bell and when I finally saved enough money for
it, the guy working there informed me that they do not
sell anymore SyTy stuff.
Thanks
Will

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From bullyhart at aol.com  Mon Apr 24 02:04:08 2006
From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 03:04:08 -0400
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit
In-Reply-To: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060423201403.45398.qmail@web35514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C835846A6719FC-EC-3208@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com>

While not on there website, contact www.tobefast.com and ask Jerry what your options are...
 
Daron 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: W M <rebel_racer_ta at yahoo.com>
To: syty at syty.org
Sent: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Syty] Cold air intake kit


Does anyone know where one can get a cold air intake
kit for a Typhoon? I was planning to buy one from
Kenne Bell and when I finally saved enough money for
it, the guy working there informed me that they do not
sell anymore SyTy stuff.
Thanks
Will

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Syty mailing list
Syty at syty.org
http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty
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From DourtyB at missouri.edu  Thu Apr 27 09:41:11 2006
From: DourtyB at missouri.edu (Dourty, Brian R. (IATS))
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:41:11 -0500
Subject: [Syty] 2006 Nationals Registration open
Message-ID: <D034FE4256F6934695BD076284FF8C225DB5B3@UM-EMAIL10.um.umsystem.edu>

Registration is now open. Please visit http://www.sytynationals.com/ and
register.

Register and pay before April 30 for $50 (guest: $20)
Register and pay between May 1 and June 30 for $55 (guest: $25)
Register and pay between July 1 and August 31 for $60 (guest: $30)
After September 1 fees are $65 (guest: $40)
(on site registration only)

If you have any questions or problems with the site please email
info at sytynationals.com!

Thanks!
__________________
Brian Dourty
93' Ty #2170
SyTy Nationals Planning Committee
98,99,00,01,02,03,04,05 Nats
typhoon.got-boost.net