From seravilo at netzero.net Thu Feb 2 08:53:16 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? Message-ID: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> Todd (I assume), I don't know if you're cognizant of the recent thread on the SyTy.Org List, but your Product(s) has come in for a bit of a thrashing. I never went for it much myself 'cause I know how semiconductors, controllers, and such fail and I just wasn't getting the classic symptoms. However, the ECM-Pros on the List kept insisting I had a bad EPROM-- or defect in your 10-n-1 Switch and claimed I was wasting my time trying to isolate defective engine sensors and such. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have been on the RIGHT TRACK all along! Yesterday, I finally tore-into the under-dash computer and tried to remember what I did in there more than 6 years ago. I removed every electrical connector and super-cleaned each pin/socket and then I removed your STG Chip-Interface on the MEMCAL. I tested start/run on a slightly warmed-over engine in 70? weather and got slightly smoother results WITHOUT your Interface PCB/EPROM. So I left the cable and dash-controller and PCB/Chip out of the car and buttoned back up with your "STG" EPROM still on the MEMCAL back. Went out for food and the thing's running as bad as ever-- for about 7 minutes. Then once full-warm-up is achieved everything is PERFECT! This situation has been deteriorating slowly for the past 3 months and I've changed EVERYTHING on the motor except the ESD module (which would only affect my start-up in any case) and the EPROM. I don't have a spare or my original stuff around where I can find it. I keep getting a Code 44. I used to think the IAC was hunting all over like crazy but have come to realize SOMETHING IS SHORTENING FUEL-PULSES DURING COLD-RUN BATCH-FIRE SEQUENCES, i.e., only when the engine hasn't been run and the weather is "cold." With the engine starving for gas it's only managing to tell me I'm running LEAN... gee, thanks a lot! WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS? Should I junk that STG EPROM and swap it for the 9722E chip left on your PCB or send it in for reprogramming or WHAT??? HELP, Dennis Olivares San Antonio 210-492-1439 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/16905deb/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Thu Feb 2 10:01:11 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/e9eef20c/attachment.html From bullyhart at aol.com Thu Feb 2 13:39:16 2006 From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:39:16 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by removing the access panel and popping it out. I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various points during the 7749 production cycle. Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/19875239/attachment.html From bullyhart at aol.com Thu Feb 2 13:44:53 2006 From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:44:53 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? In-Reply-To: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> References: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <8C7F6484584AACB-14F8-23B7@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> I dont recall anyone thrashing anything but your reluctance perform basic troubleshooting. What most have agreed is that your ECM is likely bad, not the "EPROM." Go spend 40 bucks at one of our fine boneyards in San Antonio and get you another ECM... Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: tech at sytychips.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? Todd (I assume), I don't know if you're cognizant of the recent thread on the SyTy.Org List, but your Product(s) has come in for a bit of a thrashing. I never went for it much myself 'cause I know how semiconductors, controllers, and such fail and I just wasn't getting the classic symptoms. However, the ECM-Pros on the List kept insisting I had a bad EPROM-- or defect in your 10-n-1 Switch and claimed I was wasting my time trying to isolate defective engine sensors and such. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have been on the RIGHT TRACK all along! Yesterday, I finally tore-into the under-dash computer and tried to remember what I did in there more than 6 years ago. I removed every electrical connector and super-cleaned each pin/socket and then I removed your STG Chip-Interface on the MEMCAL. I tested start/run on a slightly warmed-over engine in 70? weather and got slightly smoother results WITHOUT your Interface PCB/EPROM. So I left the cable and dash-controller and PCB/Chip out of the car and buttoned back up with your "STG" EPROM still on the MEMCAL back. Went out for food and the thing's running as bad as ever-- for about 7 minutes. Then once full-warm-up is achieved everything is PERFECT! This situation has been deteriorating slowly for the past 3 months and I've changed EVERYTHING on the motor except the ESD module (which would only affect my start-up in any case) and the EPROM. I don't have a spare or my original stuff around where I can find it. I keep getting a Code 44. I used to think the IAC was hunting all over like crazy but have come to realize SOMETHING IS SHORTENING FUEL-PULSES DURING COLD-RUN BATCH-FIRE SEQUENCES, i.e., only when the engine hasn't been run and the weather is "cold." With the engine starving for gas it's only managing to tell me I'm running LEAN... gee, thanks a lot! WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS? Should I junk that STG EPROM and swap it for the 9722E chip left on your PCB or send it in for reprogramming or WHAT??? HELP, Dennis Olivares San Antonio 210-492-1439 _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/2e4d0119/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Thu Feb 2 13:53:27 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:53:27 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? References: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> <8C7F6484584AACB-14F8-23B7@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01c62832$56691180$0ff46942@coresys1> ENOUGH of your Lip! New Year's Resolution be damned! If I find you plain evidence of "thrashing" (from one of your allegedly esteemed buddies, no less!) will you agree to... SHUT IT? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: bullyhart at aol.com To: seravilo at netzero.net ; tech at sytychips.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? I dont recall anyone thrashing anything but your reluctance perform basic troubleshooting. What most have agreed is that your ECM is likely bad, not the "EPROM." Go spend 40 bucks at one of our fine boneyards in San Antonio and get you another ECM... Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: tech at sytychips.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? Todd (I assume), I don't know if you're cognizant of the recent thread on the SyTy.Org List, but your Product(s) has come in for a bit of a thrashing. I never went for it much myself 'cause I know how semiconductors, controllers, and such fail and I just wasn't getting the classic symptoms. However, the ECM-Pros on the List kept insisting I had a bad EPROM-- or defect in your 10-n-1 Switch and claimed I was wasting my time trying to isolate defective engine sensors and such. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have been on the RIGHT TRACK all along! Yesterday, I finally tore-into the under-dash computer and tried to remember what I did in there more than 6 years ago. I removed every electrical connector and super-cleaned each pin/socket and then I removed your STG Chip-Interface on the MEMCAL. I tested start/run on a slightly warmed-over engine in 70? weather and got slightly smoother results WITHOUT your Interface PCB/EPROM. So I left the cable and dash-controller and PCB/Chip out of the car and buttoned back up with your "STG" EPROM still on the MEMCAL back. Went out for food and the thing's running as bad as ever-- for about 7 minutes. Then once full-warm-up is achieved everything is PERFECT! This situation has been deteriorating slowly for the past 3 months and I've changed EVERYTHING on the motor except the ESD module (which would only affect my start-up in any case) and the EPROM. I don't have a spare or my original stuff around where I can find it. I keep getting a Code 44. I used to think the IAC was hunting all over like crazy but have come to realize SOMETHING IS SHORTENING FUEL-PULSES DURING COLD-RUN BATCH-FIRE SEQUENCES, i.e., only when the engine hasn't been run and the weather is "cold." With the engine starving for gas it's only managing to tell me I'm running LEAN... gee, thanks a lot! WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS? Should I junk that STG EPROM and swap it for the 9722E chip left on your PCB or send it in for reprogramming or WHAT??? HELP, Dennis Olivares San Antonio 210-492-1439 _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/429b6e2e/attachment.html From OneGn1Ty at aol.com Thu Feb 2 14:40:19 2006 From: OneGn1Ty at aol.com (OneGn1Ty at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:40:19 EST Subject: [Syty] Southeast GM Turbo Power6 group has been accepted for Charlotte AutoFair! Message-ID: <21f.745e06b.3113c833@aol.com> We got the registration form today! :biggrin: So, any of you slowpokes who still haven't joined our NC/SC/VA/GA group and wish to do so go to the link below: _http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/GM_TURBO6/_ (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/GM_TURBO6/) I need to have the registration back by Feb 10 letting them know how many spots we are requesting, so don't delay if you want a chance to go. We are also having monthly meets throughout the area, as well as a Myrtle Beach trip planned for mid April. Any questions feel free to email me ASAP! Cheryl '93 Typhoon '86 GN http://www.hometown.aol.com/onegn1ty/myhomepageindex.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/d468d726/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 08:08:46 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:08:46 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003101c628c9$86b69cd0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <002901c628cb$5a41c650$06f46942@coresys1> I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking about the very same thing! I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be out of business... or just not give a damn! I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind offer! Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than what I got. Any ideas in this regard? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/64036980/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 08:29:40 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:29:40 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c628cd$27c73050$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <003a01c628ce$453e1b70$06f46942@coresys1> I'm now pursuing this Outfit: http://www.ecudirect.com/index.asp ...for my ECM-rebuild since I can afford to wait... Ty up on cinderblocks and all.... I got a brand new set of Lucas standard-impedance disc-injectors (36lb as I recall) so I guess your upgrade is not something I'll be pursuing. Thanx anyway.... Now how about a line on REPROGRAMMING SYSTEMS-- or BM Computer, if you know how to raise the dead! D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:21 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, I live in Lawrence, Kansas, but you can still swing by if you want. The driver upgrades are for people running low impedance, peak and hold injectors. I learned how to swap them out a few years ago, as people became interested in running larger injectors. I don't do any rebuilding or repair besides that. I don't know anyone that rebuilds them. I think you can still buy a new or reconditioned ecm from GM. NAPA also sold them at one time. I don't know if they take your core. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:56 AM To: Jim Sloan Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Aren't YOU the one(s) who lives in/near San Antone? Maybe I could just pick it up! Now that Imus in the Morning is over, I'm about to take the new Typhoon-ECM out for a second test/learning drive; it's 47 degrees outside and I should have a better indication of whether the original problem has gone away... and pray that all those new horrors have disappeared overnight. Tell me about those FI-driver "upgrades." I saw something about that stuff years ago... somewhere on these pages... and that's what I think has been wrong with my set-up, until I made the actual swap-out yesterday. Do you rebuild these things? Are all ECMs created equal? Provided my old Syclone ECM is bad, who would be able to rebuild/upgrade it? Answer fast... before I think of another dozen questions! D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, Since I said that I had a spare ecm, I have sold two. I have another one with an injector driver upgrade, and I usually sell them for $75. Let me know if you are interested. I could send it to you as a loaner for a substitution test if you want......pay me if it works, or send it back. Your best option may be car-part.com. 1227749 and 16198263 are the 2 part numbers to look for. Let me know. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/67bce214/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 08:50:43 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:50:43 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys now... from the same outfit if possible If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my existing hardware/software and learn something else.... D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to use. Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking about the very same thing! I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be out of business... or just not give a damn! I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind offer! Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than what I got. Any ideas in this regard? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/3d4c7683/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 13:55:22 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:55:22 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <002c01c628c8$781cc740$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <002c01c628fb$c5b42e20$11f46942@coresys1> I ended up getting a new ECM from RockAuto for $118... delivered to my door. Now, I still have to decide whom I want to rebuild or trade my original #1227749.... Those other WEASELS at ECUDirect.com wanted $200 (plus freight both ways!) to rebuild my bad ECM and $170 for a newly refurb'd one-- plus core charge! OUTRAGEOUS!! So at least I'm back on the road with fewer headaches.... RESULTS OF ROAD-TEST TWO: I decided to run around this morning after the rush-hour crush had subsided to see if the newly transplanted Ty-ECM had "slept well" in its new home in the 'Clone's harness-- and worse, to see if I had to eat crow for breakfast, in lieu of my usual diet of nails and glass shards. Sorry, Bully-Boy, et al. but not just yet... maybe not ever: I had the exact same ROTTEN hunt/starve start-up I had back in November when this problem first surfaced! That ultra-fast idle I had last night at shutdown-- which I surely could have used to keep from having to pump that gas pedal to keep the engine alive-- was nowhere to be found, damn it! After dying a few times after I went into Reverse, I finally got out of the drive way with all kinds of heaving and cutting out. I drove down to the end of the block in second gear as usual (I have a neighborhood-menace image to maintain!) and things started to clear up a bit. By the time I got out of the subdivision, things looked as though they may actually be getting back to normal... higher boost to boot! I dreaded the coming of the 5-minute breakdown, but it never came! Things were looking up!! A little hesitation at stoplights but all else was going fine otherwise. I then decided to drive to the hardware store to try to get more screws to fill up all those vacancies in the dashboard whenever I get back to buttoning everything up again... after I'm sure the problem is SOLVED. Stopping off for a brief shopping sprint would allow me to see how the car would do under a warmed-up start situation. (The old, pre-November 'Clone would always catch and run away after 1/2 to 2 revs at warm-crank-up... almost as good as an electric motor!) But, it was not to be. I got the starter going and NO fast-catch... just the same old COLD-START-UP HORSES#1T I've been getting... all the same hunting/starving while I work the pedal like Gene Krupa! I HATE BEING RIGHT ALL THE $%^&%$ TIME!!! Especially when I end up in the victim's spot both ways!! Then, the batch-firing smoothes-out, the engine climbs another 1800 rpm, and away we go-- till the next surprise breakdown. No more incidents that trip. Maybe this ECM is just a "slow-learner." I'll just let it set another few daze or so before I start tweaking things again.... Road-test Three will commence around 1am tonight and last, with assorted stop-offs, 'til 4:30am or so. I don't think I'll get stranded; I never did before but came awful close a few times lately with the old ECM and cold weather. Who knows what I'll face tonight, but I had this same combo running like a TOP in that Typhoon before I took the wheels off last year.... Stay tuned... and try to THINK what else this Problem could be, Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, Since I said that I had a spare ecm, I have sold two. I have another one with an injector driver upgrade, and I usually sell them for $75. Let me know if you are interested. I could send it to you as a loaner for a substitution test if you want......pay me if it works, or send it back. Your best option may be car-part.com. 1227749 and 16198263 are the 2 part numbers to look for. Let me know. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/47c5d690/attachment.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Fri Feb 3 14:02:13 2006 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:02:13 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <20060203150213.x46b221zi0rowcgw@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Get in touch with Bruce Plecan of the turbo regal web site since he took the stock sy/ty computer and made it work for the GN motor. He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Quoting DOlivares : > BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of > hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE > GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys > now... from the same outfit if possible > > If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up > Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my > existing hardware/software and learn something else.... > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work > for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had > upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do > that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, > could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to > use. > > Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. > Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and > edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. > Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. > > Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a > wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I > used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. > There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip > programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking > about the very same thing! > > I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my > experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I > invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. > However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, > THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be > out of business... or just not give a damn! > > I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about > Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind > offer! > > Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not > have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant > to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system > UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than > what I got. Any ideas in this regard? > > D.O. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Dennis, > > I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want > onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. > > Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also > sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's > adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. > > Jim > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are > really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at > unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach > full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. > Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and > sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is > practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long > after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting > REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do > about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They > know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me > to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I > can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? > Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible > ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe > this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? > Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to > part with all that Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the > misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts > COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in > which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes > into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after > everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as > far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and > smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no > "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with > bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit > sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not > what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley > Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection > to cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I > can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs > to troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are > any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what > was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first > hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between > those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and > for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at > 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! > Here's what happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, > cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now > it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along > with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new > Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets > going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about > a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth > until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and > the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put > her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias > in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down > to an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air > is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 14:03:20 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:03:20 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> <8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did! Clean living paying off...? What does that say about YOU? ...must not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something equally disastrous.... I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run. I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc. It's the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with! D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: bullyhart at aol.com To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by removing the access panel and popping it out. I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various points during the 7749 production cycle. Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/d009e53d/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 14:08:45 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:08:45 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Re: Website Quote From References: <200602031858.k13Iwfh2029404@mail.monstercommerce.com> <000f01c628fa$eadf0fe0$0902c8c8@TINA> Message-ID: <004801c628fd$a4439fd0$11f46942@coresys1> MUCH more reasonable! Your competitors at ECU-Direct wanted $200-plus for the same project! I trust you'll be doing more than a fresh coat of spray-paint... but seriously... what kind of reworking and testing do you do to these things? Do you need the MEMCAL (plug-in chip) for these tests? I'd feel safer holding onto that EPROM carrier if it's all the same to you.... Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: SIA Electronics To: seravilo at netzero.net Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Website Quote From Hello Dennis, The cost to rebuild your ecm is $73.00 + shipping/handling. It usually takes 1-3 days for the repair. Please include inside the box with your ecm, your name, return address and phone number and a note telling my technician what kinds of problems your having. Please fell free to email me or call with any other questions that you may have. Thanks and have a great day!!! Kristi SIA Electronics 1-800-737-0915 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Website Quote From > Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by > (seravilo at netzero.net) on Friday, February 3, 2006 at 13:58:41 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > name: Dennis Olivares > > address: 10935 whisper ridge > > city: san antonio > > state: TX > > zip: 78230 > > homephone: 210-492-1439 > > Part_type: ECM > > Manufacturer: GM/Delco > > Make_Model_Yr: GMC Syclone, 1991 > > OEM_Part: 1227749 > > Transmission: Automatic_trans > > Engine_size: 4.3 > > question: I have a defective unit I just pulled outta the car yesterday. HOW MUCH for you to rebuild it? > > Submit: Submit > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/0ecaa44e/attachment.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 14:17:14 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:17:14 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd><004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> <20060203150213.x46b221zi0rowcgw@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <004f01c628ff$3c6a9fb0$11f46942@coresys1> Thanks, I'll look him up. He's probably like this guy who wanted to "Syclone" his Camaro: http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/1990conversion.shtml Personally-- with an admitted bias toward all my hands-on experience with the GN/TTA motors and controls-- I'd rather convert my Sy and Ty to the MAF-based Buick system. It's SEQUENTIAL, more "forgiving" to bolt-on and build-in mods, and NEVER gave me any PROM or ECM problems like I'm having now!! D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: eqs at frontiernet.net To: DOlivares Cc: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Get in touch with Bruce Plecan of the turbo regal web site since he took the stock sy/ty computer and made it work for the GN motor. He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Quoting DOlivares : > BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of > hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE > GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys > now... from the same outfit if possible > > If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up > Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my > existing hardware/software and learn something else.... > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work > for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had > upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do > that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, > could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to > use. > > Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. > Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and > edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. > Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. > > Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a > wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I > used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. > There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip > programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking > about the very same thing! > > I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my > experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I > invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. > However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, > THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be > out of business... or just not give a damn! > > I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about > Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind > offer! > > Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not > have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant > to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system > UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than > what I got. Any ideas in this regard? > > D.O. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Dennis, > > I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want > onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. > > Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also > sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's > adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. > > Jim > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are > really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at > unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach > full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. > Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and > sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is > practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long > after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting > REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do > about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They > know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me > to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I > can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? > Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible > ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe > this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? > Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to > part with all that Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the > misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts > COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in > which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes > into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after > everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as > far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and > smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no > "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with > bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit > sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not > what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley > Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection > to cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I > can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs > to troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are > any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what > was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first > hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between > those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and > for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at > 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! > Here's what happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, > cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now > it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along > with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new > Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets > going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about > a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth > until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and > the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put > her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias > in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down > to an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air > is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/2fd55bbc/attachment.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Fri Feb 3 14:49:33 2006 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:49:33 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> <8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> <003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <20060203154933.1kg4zh5wcug4kk00@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> When I bought my GN the car would not start. The previous owner sold it to me for a low price with 24K on the clock. I diagnosed the problem to be the ECM. A trip to the parts yard gave me a used ECM for $50. The car started right up after it's replacement. Quoting DOlivares : > And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did! > Clean living paying off...? What does that say about YOU? ...must > not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something > equally disastrous.... > > I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit > from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run. > > I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc. It's > the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with! > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bullyhart at aol.com > To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. > > ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal > is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by > removing the access panel and popping it out. > > I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM > problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various > points during the 7749 production cycle. > Daron > > -----Original Message----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no > better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable > times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up > after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the > thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but > throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless > information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well > into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as > admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't > even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I > do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS > crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new > ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne > or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which > was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is > the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, > neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that > Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior > complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP > conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will > get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to > full operating temperature... just after everything had been going > just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a > scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than > ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure > predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that > they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... > before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I > might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to > cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf > Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can > get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to > troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any > indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was > becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, > appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' > Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 > or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. > I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what > happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking > times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't > stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new > TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. > Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and > hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen > cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we > hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the > IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her > in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in > the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to > an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in > the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 15:04:58 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:04:58 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd><000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1><006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1><8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com><003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> <20060203154933.1kg4zh5wcug4kk00@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <006301c62905$7e64d330$11f46942@coresys1> Now I know THREE people with ECM problems! Happy daze!! It only took a decade or so.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: eqs at frontiernet.net To: DOlivares Cc: bullyhart at aol.com ; leroy at sunflower.com ; syty at syty.org Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:49 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! When I bought my GN the car would not start. The previous owner sold it to me for a low price with 24K on the clock. I diagnosed the problem to be the ECM. A trip to the parts yard gave me a used ECM for $50. The car started right up after it's replacement. Quoting DOlivares : > And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did! > Clean living paying off...? What does that say about YOU? ...must > not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something > equally disastrous.... > > I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit > from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run. > > I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc. It's > the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with! > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bullyhart at aol.com > To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. > > ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal > is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by > removing the access panel and popping it out. > > I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM > problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various > points during the 7749 production cycle. > Daron > > -----Original Message----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no > better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable > times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up > after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the > thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but > throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless > information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well > into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as > admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't > even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I > do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS > crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new > ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne > or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which > was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is > the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, > neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that > Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior > complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP > conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will > get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to > full operating temperature... just after everything had been going > just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a > scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than > ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure > predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that > they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... > before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I > might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to > cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf > Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can > get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to > troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any > indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was > becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, > appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' > Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 > or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. > I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what > happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking > times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't > stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new > TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. > Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and > hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen > cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we > hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the > IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her > in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in > the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to > an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in > the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/74d93028/attachment.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Fri Feb 3 15:36:03 2006 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:36:03 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <004f01c628ff$3c6a9fb0$11f46942@coresys1> References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd><004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> <20060203150213.x46b221zi0rowcgw@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> <004f01c628ff$3c6a9fb0$11f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <20060203163603.zjccxp8arl7okkww@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Pssht..You are way off base on this ASSumption like many other people that assume :-) Bruce has done wonders on the GN motor especially the adaptation of LS1 coils, custom chip tuning for bigger injectors, GN suspension, Syclone ecm adaptation and many other projects. He is widely known on the DYI-EFI site as well as the GNTTYPE, turbobuicks, t6p sites. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/brakes/combo.JPG http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/mafrelocate.html http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plenum.html http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/coilover.html http://www.gnttype.org/carofthemonth/archive/31thru60/sub31/comdetails1.html http://diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/1227749/749.txt Quoting DOlivares : > Thanks, > > I'll look him up. He's probably like this guy who wanted to > "Syclone" his Camaro: > > http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/1990conversion.shtml > > Personally-- with an admitted bias toward all my hands-on experience > with the GN/TTA motors and controls-- I'd rather convert my Sy and Ty > to the MAF-based Buick system. It's SEQUENTIAL, more "forgiving" to > bolt-on and build-in mods, and NEVER gave me any PROM or ECM problems > like I'm having now!! > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: eqs at frontiernet.net > To: DOlivares > Cc: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:02 PM > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > > Get in touch with Bruce Plecan of the turbo regal web site since he > took the stock sy/ty computer and made it work for the GN motor. > He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. > > Quoting DOlivares : > >> BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of >> hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE >> GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys >> now... from the same outfit if possible >> >> If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up >> Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my >> existing hardware/software and learn something else.... >> >> D.O. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jim Sloan >> To: 'DOlivares' >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM >> Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work >> for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had >> upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do >> that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, >> could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to >> use. >> >> Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. >> Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and >> edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. >> Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. >> >> Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a >> wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I >> used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. >> There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip >> programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM >> To: Jim Sloan >> Cc: syty at syty.org >> Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> Importance: High >> >> >> I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking >> about the very same thing! >> >> I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my >> experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I >> invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. >> However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, >> THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be >> out of business... or just not give a damn! >> >> I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about >> Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind >> offer! >> >> Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not >> have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant >> to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system >> UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than >> what I got. Any ideas in this regard? >> >> D.O. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jim Sloan >> To: 'DOlivares' >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM >> Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> Dennis, >> >> I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want >> onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. >> >> Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also >> sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's >> adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM >> To: Jim Sloan >> Cc: syty at syty.org >> Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> Importance: High >> >> >> Jim, >> >> When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the >> plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI >> Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either >> a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can >> screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I >> kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who >> sent that cosmic ray my way...? >> >> I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are >> really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at >> unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach >> full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. >> Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and >> sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is >> practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long >> after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting >> REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do >> about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They >> know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me >> to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I >> can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? >> Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible >> ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe >> this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? >> Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to >> part with all that Delco firmware just yet. >> >> In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my >> still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old >> Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound >> reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of >> rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 >> upgrade I want to eventually put back. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> D.O. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: DOlivares >> To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! >> [You know who you are.] >> >> Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a >> couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on >> for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to >> swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module >> in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. >> >> The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the >> misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts >> COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in >> which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes >> into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after >> everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as >> far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and >> smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no >> "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with >> bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit >> sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not >> what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley >> Annihilator) just for laughs.... >> >> Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection >> to cold/cool ambient temperature? >> >> D.O. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jim Sloan >> To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM >> Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> Happy New Year Dennis! >> >> I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You >> could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that >> out, if your build isn't too radical. >> >> I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and >> have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need >> one. >> >> Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the >> diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html >> . >> >> Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On >> Behalf Of DOlivares >> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM >> To: syty at syty.org >> Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> Importance: High >> >> >> Who watches The Watcher? >> >> Who advises The Guru? >> >> Who assists The Good Samaritan? >> >> I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I >> can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs >> to troubleshoot my li'l pony): >> >> Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the >> bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the >> usual suspects: >> >> Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are >> any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my >> right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local >> "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months >> before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that >> all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from >> popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad >> advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror >> Show in a later mailing. >> >> Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what >> was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first >> hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between >> those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and >> for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at >> 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! >> Here's what happens: >> >> Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, >> cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now >> it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along >> with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new >> Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets >> going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about >> a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth >> until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and >> the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put >> her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias >> in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down >> to an idle or coast speed. >> >> THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air >> is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this >> global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did >> have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up >> temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES >> light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal >> to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and >> cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, >> until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even >> recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer >> days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle >> is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few >> moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order >> of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've >> NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! >> Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the >> way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! >> >> Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! >> Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird >> thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS >> or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be >> switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could >> fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of >> hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to >> different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the >> engine's as well as my own! >> >> WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... >> >> Dennis O. >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Syty mailing list >> Syty at syty.org >> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty >> > > > > From seravilo at netzero.net Sat Feb 4 11:11:10 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:11:10 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <197.4f66fae2.31159915@aol.com> Message-ID: <002301c629ad$ffeed100$0ff46942@coresys1> YOU blowing an ECM is understandable... women-drivers and all.... (I never forget an old feud!) But seriously, folks, I think "we" may be back down to 3 based on the horrific results of... Road-Test #3 last night! With a fresh ECM/MEMCAL (working perfectly in the Typhoon last year and being electrically isolated all that time) and air-temp around 40?, I took off on my "night runs" and damn near had the WORST NIGHT ON THE ROAD--EVER!! This trip basically picked up where the horror-ride of last Sunday evening left off! Start-up was the usual hunting/starving/pumping-to-stay-alive crap I always have, but part-throttle take-off was a li'l better. However, the 6-minute DIE-OFF was back like clockwork and I had to pump and pump and PUMP to get onto the access road and then the expressway... not quite as bad as the very worst-- just worse than any time in November! But, instead of smooth sailing as soon as I began cruising at 65mph, I get REPEATED AND UNPRECEDENTED STARVE-OUTS (SES-light comes on after chugging begins) all the way to and from my destination 9.5 miles away!!! This was unquestionably the very WORST highway performance ever logged in that vehicle!!!! The fix consisted of 3 or 4 quick pumps on the gas-pedal and I was good for another minute or so... then the same HOR$E$H1T all over again till I got off the expressway. Then everything was "FINE"... darting around on deserted streets under 50mph, except for a couple of starve-outs under sustained cruise-load. Folks, this is a batch-fired FUELING problem-- not spark- or advance-related-- yet its also not a problem with the gas pressure or supply. Today, I'll be hooking up my analog meter to prove that point... for myself and all the skeptics out there in SyTy-ville (and besides if the brand-spanking-new super-Walbro fuel pump were truly having intermittent fits, I could not fix the problem with 3 hits on the pedal... there wouldn't be enough pressurized gas in the line to smooth things out as I lengthen those FI-pulses!) Either this NEVER WAS an ECM problem, or else, by hooking into the existing Syclone harness, the "new" perfectly working Typhoon-ECM got dragged-down and destroyed as well-- which still makes "ECM failure" (if any) just ANOTHER SYMPTOM of a core-problem that lies elsewhere! Now, I'm not sure I wanna send in the old ECM for rebuild... they'll probably just check it out, pronounce it FINE, and charge me $25, plus shipping both ways. But for the cold-start-up difficulties and lack of "choke function" (fuel-pulse enrichment + fast-idle) and starve-hunt-pump-rev sequences for 30 secs until the tach takes off on a 2000 rpm increase (depending on where I'm holding the pedal), THIS SYNDROME IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE TIME MY Turbo-TRANS AM HAD A BUM-ALTERNATOR: Once upon a time... in a Sodom-Gomorrah-like planet called Washington Metro, thankfully far, far away now... there was this Jedi Warrior (guess who!) nicknamed "Batman" who used to terrorize LS6 Chevelles, Corvettes, GNs, and turbo'd rice-burners on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (and "New York Ave. Dragway" between 3-4 am) who was always suping-up his TTA/Millennium Falcon in his NASA-based Garage. With a run-down battery and a too-late-diagnosed dead alternator, he packed up his newly arrived 140A alternator, got a jump-start, and headed off to his Batcave in Greenbelt, Md. before the real rush-hour gridlock solidified. He got out of Va. and through DC without incident and things were cruising fine on the Parkway until he was just a few miles away from his destination. At that point, the depleting Optima battery began to poop-out and the car began to struggle and starve and lose speed. But a few pumps on the pedal were sufficient to restore cruise for a few seconds... first 30... then 25... then 20 and so on. The low-batt condition was shortening the FI-pulses and thus starving the motor for fuel. Whacking the pedal would widen these pulses slightly-- similar to the action of an accelerator pump on a carburetor-- and thus keep the A/F mixture in a proper running range for a few cycles. However, as the battery dragged-down lower and lower, the engine eventually just DIED for lack of fuel; no manner of pumping the pedal would stretch those injector-pulses into delivering an adequate spray of gasoline to enough cylinders. So, Batman had to dead-cruise to an island on an on-ramp, dodge streams of traffic, hike over to El Torrito's (before the days of widespread cell-phonery) where he got Robin to come rescue him and get the TTA-mobile towed to the Batcave... where the new alternator went in, Optima got charged, and they all lived happily ever after.... I think they all went back to El Torrito for a victory dinner afterwards, but details are sketchy. The moral of that story is THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH NOW, except my 'Clone's electrical system is in tip-top shape! Does THIS give any among you a clue? I'm more STUMPED than ever now.... Who knows a good EXORCIST?? Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: L1D2B at aol.com To: seravilo at netzero.net Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:43 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Make it 4 - I blew at least one. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060204/2c6bc76b/attachment.html From bgfig at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 14:05:45 2006 From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:05:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Syty] NeeD a FRoNT WheeL & ..... Message-ID: <20060208200545.59877.qmail@web37802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please Help! I need a Front Wheel and a source for a Spare Tire. Phone me at 443-653-2594. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060208/62fcf0fe/attachment.html From bgfig at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 14:18:44 2006 From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:18:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Syty] NeeD a FRoNT WheeL & ..... Message-ID: <20060208201844.52107.qmail@web37813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please Help! I need a Front Wheel and a source for a Spare Tire. Phone me at 443-653-2594. --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060208/42d89ad9/attachment.html From tydriver at hotmail.com Mon Feb 27 16:29:59 2006 From: tydriver at hotmail.com (Rick In Central Texas) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:29:59 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <1e9.46e14702.3089a7c3@aol.com> Message-ID: Happened to see that syty.org site is down.... is the list up? Obligatory SyTy content: Enjoying my JS coilover conversion! With that, the CBR brakes, the quick-ratio box, rebuilt steering, rag-joint elimination she's handling, stopping and steering really nice. Rick _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From Mr2879sy at aol.com Tue Feb 28 10:23:43 2006 From: Mr2879sy at aol.com (Mr2879sy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:23:43 EST Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? Message-ID: <21a.8e25860.3135d30f@aol.com> In a message dated 2/28/2006 10:22:45 AM Central Standard Time, tydriver at hotmail.com writes: > Happened to see that syty.org site is down.... is the list up? > Obligatory SyTy content: > Enjoying my JS coilover conversion! With that, the CBR brakes, the > quick-ratio box, rebuilt steering, rag-joint elimination she's handling, > stopping and steering really nice. > hI Rick yep it's on and working - sounds like some cool mods on your truck marty-mj - www.syborgtwinturbo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060228/87e09002/attachment.html From DourtyB at missouri.edu Tue Feb 28 10:52:18 2006 From: DourtyB at missouri.edu (Dourty, Brian R. (IATS)) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:52:18 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? Message-ID: Syty.org is back up. Just missed the renewal of the domain name. It expired on the 26th. Oops. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of Rick In Central Texas > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:30 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? > > Happened to see that syty.org site is down.... is the list up? > Obligatory SyTy content: > Enjoying my JS coilover conversion! With that, the CBR > brakes, the quick-ratio box, rebuilt steering, rag-joint > elimination she's handling, stopping and steering really nice. > > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today > - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From grahamhill at comcast.net Tue Feb 28 19:39:37 2006 From: grahamhill at comcast.net (Graham D. Hill) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:39:37 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Syclone Parts Message-ID: Hi All, I am looking for a windscreen wiper motor, glove box door, and diver's exterior door handle. Does anyone have a parts vehicle that they would care to share? Let me know, Graham Sy#1163 From seravilo at netzero.net Thu Feb 2 08:53:16 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? Message-ID: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> Todd (I assume), I don't know if you're cognizant of the recent thread on the SyTy.Org List, but your Product(s) has come in for a bit of a thrashing. I never went for it much myself 'cause I know how semiconductors, controllers, and such fail and I just wasn't getting the classic symptoms. However, the ECM-Pros on the List kept insisting I had a bad EPROM-- or defect in your 10-n-1 Switch and claimed I was wasting my time trying to isolate defective engine sensors and such. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have been on the RIGHT TRACK all along! Yesterday, I finally tore-into the under-dash computer and tried to remember what I did in there more than 6 years ago. I removed every electrical connector and super-cleaned each pin/socket and then I removed your STG Chip-Interface on the MEMCAL. I tested start/run on a slightly warmed-over engine in 70? weather and got slightly smoother results WITHOUT your Interface PCB/EPROM. So I left the cable and dash-controller and PCB/Chip out of the car and buttoned back up with your "STG" EPROM still on the MEMCAL back. Went out for food and the thing's running as bad as ever-- for about 7 minutes. Then once full-warm-up is achieved everything is PERFECT! This situation has been deteriorating slowly for the past 3 months and I've changed EVERYTHING on the motor except the ESD module (which would only affect my start-up in any case) and the EPROM. I don't have a spare or my original stuff around where I can find it. I keep getting a Code 44. I used to think the IAC was hunting all over like crazy but have come to realize SOMETHING IS SHORTENING FUEL-PULSES DURING COLD-RUN BATCH-FIRE SEQUENCES, i.e., only when the engine hasn't been run and the weather is "cold." With the engine starving for gas it's only managing to tell me I'm running LEAN... gee, thanks a lot! WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS? Should I junk that STG EPROM and swap it for the 9722E chip left on your PCB or send it in for reprogramming or WHAT??? HELP, Dennis Olivares San Antonio 210-492-1439 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/16905deb/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Thu Feb 2 10:01:11 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/e9eef20c/attachment-0001.html From bullyhart at aol.com Thu Feb 2 13:39:16 2006 From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:39:16 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by removing the access panel and popping it out. I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various points during the 7749 production cycle. Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/19875239/attachment-0001.html From bullyhart at aol.com Thu Feb 2 13:44:53 2006 From: bullyhart at aol.com (bullyhart at aol.com) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:44:53 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? In-Reply-To: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> References: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <8C7F6484584AACB-14F8-23B7@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> I dont recall anyone thrashing anything but your reluctance perform basic troubleshooting. What most have agreed is that your ECM is likely bad, not the "EPROM." Go spend 40 bucks at one of our fine boneyards in San Antonio and get you another ECM... Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: tech at sytychips.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? Todd (I assume), I don't know if you're cognizant of the recent thread on the SyTy.Org List, but your Product(s) has come in for a bit of a thrashing. I never went for it much myself 'cause I know how semiconductors, controllers, and such fail and I just wasn't getting the classic symptoms. However, the ECM-Pros on the List kept insisting I had a bad EPROM-- or defect in your 10-n-1 Switch and claimed I was wasting my time trying to isolate defective engine sensors and such. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have been on the RIGHT TRACK all along! Yesterday, I finally tore-into the under-dash computer and tried to remember what I did in there more than 6 years ago. I removed every electrical connector and super-cleaned each pin/socket and then I removed your STG Chip-Interface on the MEMCAL. I tested start/run on a slightly warmed-over engine in 70? weather and got slightly smoother results WITHOUT your Interface PCB/EPROM. So I left the cable and dash-controller and PCB/Chip out of the car and buttoned back up with your "STG" EPROM still on the MEMCAL back. Went out for food and the thing's running as bad as ever-- for about 7 minutes. Then once full-warm-up is achieved everything is PERFECT! This situation has been deteriorating slowly for the past 3 months and I've changed EVERYTHING on the motor except the ESD module (which would only affect my start-up in any case) and the EPROM. I don't have a spare or my original stuff around where I can find it. I keep getting a Code 44. I used to think the IAC was hunting all over like crazy but have come to realize SOMETHING IS SHORTENING FUEL-PULSES DURING COLD-RUN BATCH-FIRE SEQUENCES, i.e., only when the engine hasn't been run and the weather is "cold." With the engine starving for gas it's only managing to tell me I'm running LEAN... gee, thanks a lot! WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS? Should I junk that STG EPROM and swap it for the 9722E chip left on your PCB or send it in for reprogramming or WHAT??? HELP, Dennis Olivares San Antonio 210-492-1439 _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/2e4d0119/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Thu Feb 2 13:53:27 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:53:27 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? References: <003501c62808$6744f660$05f46942@coresys1> <8C7F6484584AACB-14F8-23B7@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01c62832$56691180$0ff46942@coresys1> ENOUGH of your Lip! New Year's Resolution be damned! If I find you plain evidence of "thrashing" (from one of your allegedly esteemed buddies, no less!) will you agree to... SHUT IT? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: bullyhart at aol.com To: seravilo at netzero.net ; tech at sytychips.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? I dont recall anyone thrashing anything but your reluctance perform basic troubleshooting. What most have agreed is that your ECM is likely bad, not the "EPROM." Go spend 40 bucks at one of our fine boneyards in San Antonio and get you another ECM... Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: tech at sytychips.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Possible 10-n-1 Problems...? Todd (I assume), I don't know if you're cognizant of the recent thread on the SyTy.Org List, but your Product(s) has come in for a bit of a thrashing. I never went for it much myself 'cause I know how semiconductors, controllers, and such fail and I just wasn't getting the classic symptoms. However, the ECM-Pros on the List kept insisting I had a bad EPROM-- or defect in your 10-n-1 Switch and claimed I was wasting my time trying to isolate defective engine sensors and such. Unfortunately, it looks like they might have been on the RIGHT TRACK all along! Yesterday, I finally tore-into the under-dash computer and tried to remember what I did in there more than 6 years ago. I removed every electrical connector and super-cleaned each pin/socket and then I removed your STG Chip-Interface on the MEMCAL. I tested start/run on a slightly warmed-over engine in 70? weather and got slightly smoother results WITHOUT your Interface PCB/EPROM. So I left the cable and dash-controller and PCB/Chip out of the car and buttoned back up with your "STG" EPROM still on the MEMCAL back. Went out for food and the thing's running as bad as ever-- for about 7 minutes. Then once full-warm-up is achieved everything is PERFECT! This situation has been deteriorating slowly for the past 3 months and I've changed EVERYTHING on the motor except the ESD module (which would only affect my start-up in any case) and the EPROM. I don't have a spare or my original stuff around where I can find it. I keep getting a Code 44. I used to think the IAC was hunting all over like crazy but have come to realize SOMETHING IS SHORTENING FUEL-PULSES DURING COLD-RUN BATCH-FIRE SEQUENCES, i.e., only when the engine hasn't been run and the weather is "cold." With the engine starving for gas it's only managing to tell me I'm running LEAN... gee, thanks a lot! WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ABOUT THIS? Should I junk that STG EPROM and swap it for the 9722E chip left on your PCB or send it in for reprogramming or WHAT??? HELP, Dennis Olivares San Antonio 210-492-1439 _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/429b6e2e/attachment-0001.html From OneGn1Ty at aol.com Thu Feb 2 14:40:19 2006 From: OneGn1Ty at aol.com (OneGn1Ty at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:40:19 EST Subject: [Syty] Southeast GM Turbo Power6 group has been accepted for Charlotte AutoFair! Message-ID: <21f.745e06b.3113c833@aol.com> We got the registration form today! :biggrin: So, any of you slowpokes who still haven't joined our NC/SC/VA/GA group and wish to do so go to the link below: _http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/GM_TURBO6/_ (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/GM_TURBO6/) I need to have the registration back by Feb 10 letting them know how many spots we are requesting, so don't delay if you want a chance to go. We are also having monthly meets throughout the area, as well as a Myrtle Beach trip planned for mid April. Any questions feel free to email me ASAP! Cheryl '93 Typhoon '86 GN http://www.hometown.aol.com/onegn1ty/myhomepageindex.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060202/d468d726/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 08:08:46 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:08:46 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003101c628c9$86b69cd0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <002901c628cb$5a41c650$06f46942@coresys1> I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking about the very same thing! I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be out of business... or just not give a damn! I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind offer! Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than what I got. Any ideas in this regard? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/64036980/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 08:29:40 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:29:40 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c628cd$27c73050$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <003a01c628ce$453e1b70$06f46942@coresys1> I'm now pursuing this Outfit: http://www.ecudirect.com/index.asp ...for my ECM-rebuild since I can afford to wait... Ty up on cinderblocks and all.... I got a brand new set of Lucas standard-impedance disc-injectors (36lb as I recall) so I guess your upgrade is not something I'll be pursuing. Thanx anyway.... Now how about a line on REPROGRAMMING SYSTEMS-- or BM Computer, if you know how to raise the dead! D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:21 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, I live in Lawrence, Kansas, but you can still swing by if you want. The driver upgrades are for people running low impedance, peak and hold injectors. I learned how to swap them out a few years ago, as people became interested in running larger injectors. I don't do any rebuilding or repair besides that. I don't know anyone that rebuilds them. I think you can still buy a new or reconditioned ecm from GM. NAPA also sold them at one time. I don't know if they take your core. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:56 AM To: Jim Sloan Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Aren't YOU the one(s) who lives in/near San Antone? Maybe I could just pick it up! Now that Imus in the Morning is over, I'm about to take the new Typhoon-ECM out for a second test/learning drive; it's 47 degrees outside and I should have a better indication of whether the original problem has gone away... and pray that all those new horrors have disappeared overnight. Tell me about those FI-driver "upgrades." I saw something about that stuff years ago... somewhere on these pages... and that's what I think has been wrong with my set-up, until I made the actual swap-out yesterday. Do you rebuild these things? Are all ECMs created equal? Provided my old Syclone ECM is bad, who would be able to rebuild/upgrade it? Answer fast... before I think of another dozen questions! D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, Since I said that I had a spare ecm, I have sold two. I have another one with an injector driver upgrade, and I usually sell them for $75. Let me know if you are interested. I could send it to you as a loaner for a substitution test if you want......pay me if it works, or send it back. Your best option may be car-part.com. 1227749 and 16198263 are the 2 part numbers to look for. Let me know. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/67bce214/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 08:50:43 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:50:43 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys now... from the same outfit if possible If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my existing hardware/software and learn something else.... D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to use. Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking about the very same thing! I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be out of business... or just not give a damn! I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind offer! Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than what I got. Any ideas in this regard? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/3d4c7683/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 13:55:22 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:55:22 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <002c01c628c8$781cc740$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <002c01c628fb$c5b42e20$11f46942@coresys1> I ended up getting a new ECM from RockAuto for $118... delivered to my door. Now, I still have to decide whom I want to rebuild or trade my original #1227749.... Those other WEASELS at ECUDirect.com wanted $200 (plus freight both ways!) to rebuild my bad ECM and $170 for a newly refurb'd one-- plus core charge! OUTRAGEOUS!! So at least I'm back on the road with fewer headaches.... RESULTS OF ROAD-TEST TWO: I decided to run around this morning after the rush-hour crush had subsided to see if the newly transplanted Ty-ECM had "slept well" in its new home in the 'Clone's harness-- and worse, to see if I had to eat crow for breakfast, in lieu of my usual diet of nails and glass shards. Sorry, Bully-Boy, et al. but not just yet... maybe not ever: I had the exact same ROTTEN hunt/starve start-up I had back in November when this problem first surfaced! That ultra-fast idle I had last night at shutdown-- which I surely could have used to keep from having to pump that gas pedal to keep the engine alive-- was nowhere to be found, damn it! After dying a few times after I went into Reverse, I finally got out of the drive way with all kinds of heaving and cutting out. I drove down to the end of the block in second gear as usual (I have a neighborhood-menace image to maintain!) and things started to clear up a bit. By the time I got out of the subdivision, things looked as though they may actually be getting back to normal... higher boost to boot! I dreaded the coming of the 5-minute breakdown, but it never came! Things were looking up!! A little hesitation at stoplights but all else was going fine otherwise. I then decided to drive to the hardware store to try to get more screws to fill up all those vacancies in the dashboard whenever I get back to buttoning everything up again... after I'm sure the problem is SOLVED. Stopping off for a brief shopping sprint would allow me to see how the car would do under a warmed-up start situation. (The old, pre-November 'Clone would always catch and run away after 1/2 to 2 revs at warm-crank-up... almost as good as an electric motor!) But, it was not to be. I got the starter going and NO fast-catch... just the same old COLD-START-UP HORSES#1T I've been getting... all the same hunting/starving while I work the pedal like Gene Krupa! I HATE BEING RIGHT ALL THE $%^&%$ TIME!!! Especially when I end up in the victim's spot both ways!! Then, the batch-firing smoothes-out, the engine climbs another 1800 rpm, and away we go-- till the next surprise breakdown. No more incidents that trip. Maybe this ECM is just a "slow-learner." I'll just let it set another few daze or so before I start tweaking things again.... Road-test Three will commence around 1am tonight and last, with assorted stop-offs, 'til 4:30am or so. I don't think I'll get stranded; I never did before but came awful close a few times lately with the old ECM and cold weather. Who knows what I'll face tonight, but I had this same combo running like a TOP in that Typhoon before I took the wheels off last year.... Stay tuned... and try to THINK what else this Problem could be, Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Dennis, Since I said that I had a spare ecm, I have sold two. I have another one with an injector driver upgrade, and I usually sell them for $75. Let me know if you are interested. I could send it to you as a loaner for a substitution test if you want......pay me if it works, or send it back. Your best option may be car-part.com. 1227749 and 16198263 are the 2 part numbers to look for. Let me know. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/47c5d690/attachment-0001.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Fri Feb 3 14:02:13 2006 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:02:13 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <20060203150213.x46b221zi0rowcgw@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Get in touch with Bruce Plecan of the turbo regal web site since he took the stock sy/ty computer and made it work for the GN motor. He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Quoting DOlivares : > BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of > hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE > GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys > now... from the same outfit if possible > > If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up > Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my > existing hardware/software and learn something else.... > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work > for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had > upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do > that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, > could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to > use. > > Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. > Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and > edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. > Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. > > Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a > wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I > used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. > There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip > programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking > about the very same thing! > > I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my > experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I > invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. > However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, > THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be > out of business... or just not give a damn! > > I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about > Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind > offer! > > Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not > have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant > to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system > UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than > what I got. Any ideas in this regard? > > D.O. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Dennis, > > I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want > onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. > > Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also > sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's > adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. > > Jim > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are > really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at > unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach > full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. > Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and > sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is > practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long > after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting > REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do > about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They > know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me > to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I > can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? > Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible > ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe > this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? > Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to > part with all that Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the > misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts > COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in > which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes > into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after > everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as > far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and > smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no > "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with > bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit > sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not > what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley > Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection > to cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I > can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs > to troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are > any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what > was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first > hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between > those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and > for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at > 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! > Here's what happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, > cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now > it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along > with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new > Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets > going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about > a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth > until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and > the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put > her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias > in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down > to an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air > is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 14:03:20 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:03:20 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> <8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did! Clean living paying off...? What does that say about YOU? ...must not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something equally disastrous.... I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run. I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc. It's the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with! D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: bullyhart at aol.com To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by removing the access panel and popping it out. I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various points during the 7749 production cycle. Daron -----Original Message----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan Cc: syty at syty.org Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Jim, When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...? I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet. In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back. Any thoughts? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: DOlivares To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! [You know who you are.] Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature? D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sloan To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Happy New Year Dennis! I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical. I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need one. Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html . Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Importance: High Who watches The Watcher? Who advises The Guru? Who assists The Good Samaritan? I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony): Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects: Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror Show in a later mailing. Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what happens: Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed. THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own! WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/d009e53d/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 14:08:45 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:08:45 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Re: Website Quote From References: <200602031858.k13Iwfh2029404@mail.monstercommerce.com> <000f01c628fa$eadf0fe0$0902c8c8@TINA> Message-ID: <004801c628fd$a4439fd0$11f46942@coresys1> MUCH more reasonable! Your competitors at ECU-Direct wanted $200-plus for the same project! I trust you'll be doing more than a fresh coat of spray-paint... but seriously... what kind of reworking and testing do you do to these things? Do you need the MEMCAL (plug-in chip) for these tests? I'd feel safer holding onto that EPROM carrier if it's all the same to you.... Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: SIA Electronics To: seravilo at netzero.net Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Website Quote From Hello Dennis, The cost to rebuild your ecm is $73.00 + shipping/handling. It usually takes 1-3 days for the repair. Please include inside the box with your ecm, your name, return address and phone number and a note telling my technician what kinds of problems your having. Please fell free to email me or call with any other questions that you may have. Thanks and have a great day!!! Kristi SIA Electronics 1-800-737-0915 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Website Quote From > Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by > (seravilo at netzero.net) on Friday, February 3, 2006 at 13:58:41 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > name: Dennis Olivares > > address: 10935 whisper ridge > > city: san antonio > > state: TX > > zip: 78230 > > homephone: 210-492-1439 > > Part_type: ECM > > Manufacturer: GM/Delco > > Make_Model_Yr: GMC Syclone, 1991 > > OEM_Part: 1227749 > > Transmission: Automatic_trans > > Engine_size: 4.3 > > question: I have a defective unit I just pulled outta the car yesterday. HOW MUCH for you to rebuild it? > > Submit: Submit > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/0ecaa44e/attachment-0001.html From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 14:17:14 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:17:14 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd><004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> <20060203150213.x46b221zi0rowcgw@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <004f01c628ff$3c6a9fb0$11f46942@coresys1> Thanks, I'll look him up. He's probably like this guy who wanted to "Syclone" his Camaro: http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/1990conversion.shtml Personally-- with an admitted bias toward all my hands-on experience with the GN/TTA motors and controls-- I'd rather convert my Sy and Ty to the MAF-based Buick system. It's SEQUENTIAL, more "forgiving" to bolt-on and build-in mods, and NEVER gave me any PROM or ECM problems like I'm having now!! D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: eqs at frontiernet.net To: DOlivares Cc: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Get in touch with Bruce Plecan of the turbo regal web site since he took the stock sy/ty computer and made it work for the GN motor. He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. Quoting DOlivares : > BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of > hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE > GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys > now... from the same outfit if possible > > If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up > Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my > existing hardware/software and learn something else.... > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work > for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had > upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do > that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, > could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to > use. > > Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. > Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and > edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. > Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. > > Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a > wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I > used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. > There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip > programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking > about the very same thing! > > I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my > experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I > invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. > However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, > THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be > out of business... or just not give a damn! > > I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about > Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind > offer! > > Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not > have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant > to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system > UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than > what I got. Any ideas in this regard? > > D.O. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM > Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Dennis, > > I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want > onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. > > Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also > sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's > adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. > > Jim > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are > really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at > unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach > full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. > Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and > sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is > practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long > after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting > REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do > about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They > know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me > to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I > can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? > Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible > ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe > this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? > Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to > part with all that Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the > misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts > COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in > which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes > into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after > everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as > far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and > smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no > "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with > bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit > sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not > what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley > Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection > to cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I > can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs > to troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are > any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what > was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first > hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between > those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and > for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at > 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! > Here's what happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, > cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now > it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along > with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new > Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets > going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about > a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth > until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and > the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put > her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias > in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down > to an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air > is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/2fd55bbc/attachment-0001.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Fri Feb 3 14:49:33 2006 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:49:33 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1> <006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1> <8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> <003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <20060203154933.1kg4zh5wcug4kk00@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> When I bought my GN the car would not start. The previous owner sold it to me for a low price with 24K on the clock. I diagnosed the problem to be the ECM. A trip to the parts yard gave me a used ECM for $50. The car started right up after it's replacement. Quoting DOlivares : > And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did! > Clean living paying off...? What does that say about YOU? ...must > not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something > equally disastrous.... > > I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit > from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run. > > I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc. It's > the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with! > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bullyhart at aol.com > To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. > > ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal > is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by > removing the access panel and popping it out. > > I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM > problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various > points during the 7749 production cycle. > Daron > > -----Original Message----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no > better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable > times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up > after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the > thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but > throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless > information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well > into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as > admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't > even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I > do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS > crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new > ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne > or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which > was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is > the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, > neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that > Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior > complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP > conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will > get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to > full operating temperature... just after everything had been going > just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a > scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than > ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure > predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that > they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... > before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I > might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to > cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf > Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can > get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to > troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any > indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was > becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, > appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' > Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 > or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. > I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what > happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking > times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't > stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new > TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. > Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and > hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen > cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we > hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the > IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her > in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in > the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to > an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in > the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Feb 3 15:04:58 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:04:58 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <003c01c60fa6$7d8788e0$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd><000d01c60fc7$36f62f50$10f46942@coresys1><006801c62811$e41f00f0$05f46942@coresys1><8C7F6477CAFC177-14F8-2334@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com><003701c628fc$e2a45d10$11f46942@coresys1> <20060203154933.1kg4zh5wcug4kk00@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <006301c62905$7e64d330$11f46942@coresys1> Now I know THREE people with ECM problems! Happy daze!! It only took a decade or so.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: eqs at frontiernet.net To: DOlivares Cc: bullyhart at aol.com ; leroy at sunflower.com ; syty at syty.org Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:49 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! When I bought my GN the car would not start. The previous owner sold it to me for a low price with 24K on the clock. I diagnosed the problem to be the ECM. A trip to the parts yard gave me a used ECM for $50. The car started right up after it's replacement. Quoting DOlivares : > And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did! > Clean living paying off...? What does that say about YOU? ...must > not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something > equally disastrous.... > > I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit > from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run. > > I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc. It's > the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with! > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bullyhart at aol.com > To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio. > > ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case. The memcal > is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by > removing the access panel and popping it out. > > I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good. ECM > problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various > points during the 7749 production cycle. > Daron > > -----Original Message----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan > Cc: syty at syty.org > Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600 > Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Jim, > > When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the > plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI > Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either > a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can > screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I > kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who > sent that cosmic ray my way...? > > I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no > better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable > times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up > after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. Sunday, the > thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but > throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless > information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well > into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as > admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it! I can't > even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They know less than I > do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS > crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I can get a new > ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? Electrodyne > or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which > was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is > the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? Unfortunately, > neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that > Delco firmware just yet. > > In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my > still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old > Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound > reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of > rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 > upgrade I want to eventually put back. > > Any thoughts? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: DOlivares > To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! > [You know who you are.] > > Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a > couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on > for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to > swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module > in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. > > The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior > complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP > conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will > get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to > full operating temperature... just after everything had been going > just fine. That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a > scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than > ever, otherwise. This is no "intermittent." This is pure > predictability! And my experience with bad chips and modules is that > they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... > before failing outright. That's not what's occurring. Even so, I > might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs.... > > Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection to > cold/cool ambient temperature? > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Sloan > To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM > Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > Happy New Year Dennis! > > I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You > could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that > out, if your build isn't too radical. > > I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and > have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need > one. > > Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the > diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html > . > > Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. > > Jim > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf > Of DOlivares > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > Importance: High > > > Who watches The Watcher? > > Who advises The Guru? > > Who assists The Good Samaritan? > > I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can > get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to > troubleshoot my li'l pony): > > Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the > bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the > usual suspects: > > Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any > indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my > right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local > "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months > before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that > all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from > popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad > advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror > Show in a later mailing. > > Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was > becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, > appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' > Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 > or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180? or so. > I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! Here's what > happens: > > Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking > times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't > stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new > TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro. > Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and > hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen > cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we > hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the > IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put her > in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in > the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to > an idle or coast speed. > > THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in > the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this > global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did > have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up > temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES > light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal > to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and > cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, > until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even > recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer > days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle > is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few > moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order > of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've > NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! > Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the > way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! > > Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! > Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird > thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS > or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be > switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could > fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of > hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to > different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the > engine's as well as my own! > > WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... > > Dennis O. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060203/74d93028/attachment-0001.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Fri Feb 3 15:36:03 2006 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:36:03 -0500 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! In-Reply-To: <004f01c628ff$3c6a9fb0$11f46942@coresys1> References: <004101c628cf$f5e25530$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd><004801c628d1$364ab760$06f46942@coresys1> <20060203150213.x46b221zi0rowcgw@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> <004f01c628ff$3c6a9fb0$11f46942@coresys1> Message-ID: <20060203163603.zjccxp8arl7okkww@webmail03.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Pssht..You are way off base on this ASSumption like many other people that assume :-) Bruce has done wonders on the GN motor especially the adaptation of LS1 coils, custom chip tuning for bigger injectors, GN suspension, Syclone ecm adaptation and many other projects. He is widely known on the DYI-EFI site as well as the GNTTYPE, turbobuicks, t6p sites. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/brakes/combo.JPG http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/mafrelocate.html http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plenum.html http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/coilover.html http://www.gnttype.org/carofthemonth/archive/31thru60/sub31/comdetails1.html http://diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/1227749/749.txt Quoting DOlivares : > Thanks, > > I'll look him up. He's probably like this guy who wanted to > "Syclone" his Camaro: > > http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/1990conversion.shtml > > Personally-- with an admitted bias toward all my hands-on experience > with the GN/TTA motors and controls-- I'd rather convert my Sy and Ty > to the MAF-based Buick system. It's SEQUENTIAL, more "forgiving" to > bolt-on and build-in mods, and NEVER gave me any PROM or ECM problems > like I'm having now!! > > D.O. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: eqs at frontiernet.net > To: DOlivares > Cc: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:02 PM > Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! > > > > Get in touch with Bruce Plecan of the turbo regal web site since he > took the stock sy/ty computer and made it work for the GN motor. > He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject. > > Quoting DOlivares : > >> BM Computer was good because they gave me a nice canned set of >> hex-tables to correspond to the changes I wanted to program FOR THE >> GN TURBO only. I'm trying to get the equivalent set-up for the SyTys >> now... from the same outfit if possible >> >> If you knew how long it took me to wean myself off my suped-up >> Commodore-64 to a PC, you'd understand my reluctance to trash my >> existing hardware/software and learn something else.... >> >> D.O. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jim Sloan >> To: 'DOlivares' >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:41 AM >> Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> I don't know about BM computer, but the Pocket Programmer should work >> for most sy-ty chips. Transtronics (http://xtronics.com/) had >> upgraded the programmer to handle more chips, and you may need to do >> that, if you want multichip capabilities. Carl, at Transtronics, >> could tell you if your model would work with the chips you want to >> use. >> >> Datamaster is probably the most popular way to monitor the ALDL. >> Tunerpro is a free download, and can be used to monitor the aldl, and >> edit binaries. I also have Promgrammer and TunerCat for editing. >> Promgrammer is pretty cheap. TunerCat is more expensive. >> >> Emulators, like the Ostrich and Romutator, are useful if you have a >> wild build and need to make lots of changes to get things running. I >> used one when I first started burning 50 lb chips, and 55 lb chips. >> There wasn't much to go on then, except stock bins. A chip >> programmer is sufficient for most people, and is cheaper. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:09 AM >> To: Jim Sloan >> Cc: syty at syty.org >> Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> Importance: High >> >> >> I've been pouring over his 'Site the past week and been thinking >> about the very same thing! >> >> I never really got into reprogramming the SyTy stuff and all my >> experience was based on work with the GN/TTA Buick chips after I >> invested in all that BM Computer/Pocket-Programmer stuff years ago. >> However, now that I want to move into the SyTy world with this gear, >> THOSE CLOWNS WON'T RESPOND TO ANY OF MY E-QUESTIONS and may well be >> out of business... or just not give a damn! >> >> I'm not sure which direction to take now and keep hearing about >> Tuner-Cats, Ostriches, Moates' wares-- and now you and your kind >> offer! >> >> Whatever I end up with, I would like to be able to DO MYSELF and not >> have to rely on the mails-- and other strangers. I am also reluctant >> to part with all my familiar BM Computer junk and learn a new system >> UNLESS I could be assured it was a more CAPABLE or versatile than >> what I got. Any ideas in this regard? >> >> D.O. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jim Sloan >> To: 'DOlivares' >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:55 AM >> Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> Dennis, >> >> I thought of something else. I can burn whatever binary you want >> onto a stock memcal, if you want to bypass the 10-1 hardware. >> >> Craig Moates at http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36 also >> sells GM adapters, if you want to go that route. I think Craig's >> adapters are a little more robust than the old 10-1 hardware. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM >> To: Jim Sloan >> Cc: syty at syty.org >> Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> Importance: High >> >> >> Jim, >> >> When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the >> plug-ins or the whole ECM Box? Based on my latest tests, the FI >> Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either >> a thermal or a timing (delay) problem. I understand how SEUs can >> screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I >> kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car! I wonder who >> sent that cosmic ray my way...? >> >> I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are >> really no better. The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at >> unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach >> full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp. >> Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and >> sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is >> practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long >> after I was well into warm, closed-loopery. This thing is getting >> REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do >> about it! I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer! They >> know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me >> to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND! Do you know where I >> can get a new ECM... CHEAP? Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs? >> Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible >> ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe >> this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...? >> Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to >> part with all that Delco firmware just yet. >> >> In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my >> still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old >> Horse #773. IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound >> reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of >> rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 >> upgrade I want to eventually put back. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> D.O. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: DOlivares >> To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis! >> [You know who you are.] >> >> Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a >> couple of bushes for good measure! This episode has been going on >> for nearly a month. As I said, I'm running out of hardware to >> swap-out. The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module >> in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip. >> >> The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the >> misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts >> COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in >> which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes >> into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after >> everything had been going just fine. That's the worst of it... as >> far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and >> smoothness is better than ever, otherwise. This is no >> "intermittent." This is pure predictability! And my experience with >> bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit >> sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright. That's not >> what's occurring. Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley >> Annihilator) just for laughs.... >> >> Keep thinking... what else could it be??? What's the connection >> to cold/cool ambient temperature? >> >> D.O. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jim Sloan >> To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM >> Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> >> >> Happy New Year Dennis! >> >> I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters. You >> could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that >> out, if your build isn't too radical. >> >> I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and >> have seen quite a few fail in weird ways. Let me know if you need >> one. >> >> Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the >> diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html >> . >> >> Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On >> Behalf Of DOlivares >> Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM >> To: syty at syty.org >> Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped! >> Importance: High >> >> >> Who watches The Watcher? >> >> Who advises The Guru? >> >> Who assists The Good Samaritan? >> >> I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I >> can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs >> to troubleshoot my li'l pony): >> >> Meanwhile, I NEED HELP! With my laptop in pieces all over the >> bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the >> usual suspects: >> >> Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are >> any indication. I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my >> right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local >> "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months >> before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that >> all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from >> popping-out of the side-gear in the differential. HAH! More bad >> advice and I ended up taking a cab home.... More about that Horror >> Show in a later mailing. >> >> Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what >> was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first >> hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between >> those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and >> for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at >> 180? or so. I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more! >> Here's what happens: >> >> Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, >> cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now >> it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along >> with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new >> Walbro. Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets >> going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about >> a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth >> until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and >> the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while. Now, it's safe to put >> her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias >> in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down >> to an idle or coast speed. >> >> THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air >> is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare. (Ain't this >> global-warming great!) However, on a couple of occasions when I did >> have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up >> temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES >> light comes on! Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal >> to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and >> cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, >> until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again. I barely even >> recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it. Driving on warmer >> days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle >> is smooth as is the rest of drivability. Warm start-ups see a few >> moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order >> of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds. I've >> NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching! >> Now, it's time for some wretching!! All that ever gets logged in the >> way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful! >> >> Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all! >> Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird >> thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS >> or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be >> switched again. So I did... one at a time to see if I could >> fault-locate the culprit that way. No dice! I'm running out of >> hardware to replace! I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to >> different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the >> engine's as well as my own! >> >> WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS? Be nice, now.... >> >> Dennis O. >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Syty mailing list >> Syty at syty.org >> http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty >> > > > > From seravilo at netzero.net Sat Feb 4 11:11:10 2006 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:11:10 -0600 Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! References: <197.4f66fae2.31159915@aol.com> Message-ID: <002301c629ad$ffeed100$0ff46942@coresys1> YOU blowing an ECM is understandable... women-drivers and all.... (I never forget an old feud!) But seriously, folks, I think "we" may be back down to 3 based on the horrific results of... Road-Test #3 last night! With a fresh ECM/MEMCAL (working perfectly in the Typhoon last year and being electrically isolated all that time) and air-temp around 40?, I took off on my "night runs" and damn near had the WORST NIGHT ON THE ROAD--EVER!! This trip basically picked up where the horror-ride of last Sunday evening left off! Start-up was the usual hunting/starving/pumping-to-stay-alive crap I always have, but part-throttle take-off was a li'l better. However, the 6-minute DIE-OFF was back like clockwork and I had to pump and pump and PUMP to get onto the access road and then the expressway... not quite as bad as the very worst-- just worse than any time in November! But, instead of smooth sailing as soon as I began cruising at 65mph, I get REPEATED AND UNPRECEDENTED STARVE-OUTS (SES-light comes on after chugging begins) all the way to and from my destination 9.5 miles away!!! This was unquestionably the very WORST highway performance ever logged in that vehicle!!!! The fix consisted of 3 or 4 quick pumps on the gas-pedal and I was good for another minute or so... then the same HOR$E$H1T all over again till I got off the expressway. Then everything was "FINE"... darting around on deserted streets under 50mph, except for a couple of starve-outs under sustained cruise-load. Folks, this is a batch-fired FUELING problem-- not spark- or advance-related-- yet its also not a problem with the gas pressure or supply. Today, I'll be hooking up my analog meter to prove that point... for myself and all the skeptics out there in SyTy-ville (and besides if the brand-spanking-new super-Walbro fuel pump were truly having intermittent fits, I could not fix the problem with 3 hits on the pedal... there wouldn't be enough pressurized gas in the line to smooth things out as I lengthen those FI-pulses!) Either this NEVER WAS an ECM problem, or else, by hooking into the existing Syclone harness, the "new" perfectly working Typhoon-ECM got dragged-down and destroyed as well-- which still makes "ECM failure" (if any) just ANOTHER SYMPTOM of a core-problem that lies elsewhere! Now, I'm not sure I wanna send in the old ECM for rebuild... they'll probably just check it out, pronounce it FINE, and charge me $25, plus shipping both ways. But for the cold-start-up difficulties and lack of "choke function" (fuel-pulse enrichment + fast-idle) and starve-hunt-pump-rev sequences for 30 secs until the tach takes off on a 2000 rpm increase (depending on where I'm holding the pedal), THIS SYNDROME IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE TIME MY Turbo-TRANS AM HAD A BUM-ALTERNATOR: Once upon a time... in a Sodom-Gomorrah-like planet called Washington Metro, thankfully far, far away now... there was this Jedi Warrior (guess who!) nicknamed "Batman" who used to terrorize LS6 Chevelles, Corvettes, GNs, and turbo'd rice-burners on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (and "New York Ave. Dragway" between 3-4 am) who was always suping-up his TTA/Millennium Falcon in his NASA-based Garage. With a run-down battery and a too-late-diagnosed dead alternator, he packed up his newly arrived 140A alternator, got a jump-start, and headed off to his Batcave in Greenbelt, Md. before the real rush-hour gridlock solidified. He got out of Va. and through DC without incident and things were cruising fine on the Parkway until he was just a few miles away from his destination. At that point, the depleting Optima battery began to poop-out and the car began to struggle and starve and lose speed. But a few pumps on the pedal were sufficient to restore cruise for a few seconds... first 30... then 25... then 20 and so on. The low-batt condition was shortening the FI-pulses and thus starving the motor for fuel. Whacking the pedal would widen these pulses slightly-- similar to the action of an accelerator pump on a carburetor-- and thus keep the A/F mixture in a proper running range for a few cycles. However, as the battery dragged-down lower and lower, the engine eventually just DIED for lack of fuel; no manner of pumping the pedal would stretch those injector-pulses into delivering an adequate spray of gasoline to enough cylinders. So, Batman had to dead-cruise to an island on an on-ramp, dodge streams of traffic, hike over to El Torrito's (before the days of widespread cell-phonery) where he got Robin to come rescue him and get the TTA-mobile towed to the Batcave... where the new alternator went in, Optima got charged, and they all lived happily ever after.... I think they all went back to El Torrito for a victory dinner afterwards, but details are sketchy. The moral of that story is THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH NOW, except my 'Clone's electrical system is in tip-top shape! Does THIS give any among you a clue? I'm more STUMPED than ever now.... Who knows a good EXORCIST?? Dennis O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: L1D2B at aol.com To: seravilo at netzero.net Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:43 PM Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped! Make it 4 - I blew at least one. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060204/2c6bc76b/attachment-0001.html From bgfig at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 14:05:45 2006 From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:05:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Syty] NeeD a FRoNT WheeL & ..... Message-ID: <20060208200545.59877.qmail@web37802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please Help! I need a Front Wheel and a source for a Spare Tire. Phone me at 443-653-2594. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060208/62fcf0fe/attachment-0001.html From bgfig at yahoo.com Wed Feb 8 14:18:44 2006 From: bgfig at yahoo.com (barry fiege) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:18:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Syty] NeeD a FRoNT WheeL & ..... Message-ID: <20060208201844.52107.qmail@web37813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please Help! I need a Front Wheel and a source for a Spare Tire. Phone me at 443-653-2594. --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060208/42d89ad9/attachment-0001.html From tydriver at hotmail.com Mon Feb 27 16:29:59 2006 From: tydriver at hotmail.com (Rick In Central Texas) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:29:59 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <1e9.46e14702.3089a7c3@aol.com> Message-ID: Happened to see that syty.org site is down.... is the list up? Obligatory SyTy content: Enjoying my JS coilover conversion! With that, the CBR brakes, the quick-ratio box, rebuilt steering, rag-joint elimination she's handling, stopping and steering really nice. Rick _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From Mr2879sy at aol.com Tue Feb 28 10:23:43 2006 From: Mr2879sy at aol.com (Mr2879sy at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:23:43 EST Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? Message-ID: <21a.8e25860.3135d30f@aol.com> In a message dated 2/28/2006 10:22:45 AM Central Standard Time, tydriver at hotmail.com writes: > Happened to see that syty.org site is down.... is the list up? > Obligatory SyTy content: > Enjoying my JS coilover conversion! With that, the CBR brakes, the > quick-ratio box, rebuilt steering, rag-joint elimination she's handling, > stopping and steering really nice. > hI Rick yep it's on and working - sounds like some cool mods on your truck marty-mj - www.syborgtwinturbo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20060228/87e09002/attachment-0001.html From DourtyB at missouri.edu Tue Feb 28 10:52:18 2006 From: DourtyB at missouri.edu (Dourty, Brian R. (IATS)) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:52:18 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? Message-ID: Syty.org is back up. Just missed the renewal of the domain name. It expired on the 26th. Oops. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of Rick In Central Texas > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:30 PM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Is this thing on? > > Happened to see that syty.org site is down.... is the list up? > Obligatory SyTy content: > Enjoying my JS coilover conversion! With that, the CBR > brakes, the quick-ratio box, rebuilt steering, rag-joint > elimination she's handling, stopping and steering really nice. > > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today > - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From grahamhill at comcast.net Tue Feb 28 19:39:37 2006 From: grahamhill at comcast.net (Graham D. Hill) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:39:37 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Syclone Parts Message-ID: Hi All, I am looking for a windscreen wiper motor, glove box door, and diver's exterior door handle. Does anyone have a parts vehicle that they would care to share? Let me know, Graham Sy#1163