STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!

Fri Feb 3 13:55:22 CST 2006

I ended up getting a new ECM from RockAuto for $118... delivered to my door.  Now, I still have to decide whom I want to rebuild or trade my original #1227749....

Those other WEASELS at ECUDirect.com wanted $200 (plus freight both ways!) to rebuild my bad ECM and $170 for a newly refurb'd one-- plus core charge!  OUTRAGEOUS!!

So at least I'm back on the road with fewer headaches....

RESULTS OF ROAD-TEST TWO:

I decided to run around this morning after the rush-hour crush had subsided to see if the newly transplanted Ty-ECM had "slept well" in its new home in the 'Clone's harness-- and worse, to see if I had to eat crow for breakfast, in lieu of my usual diet of nails and glass shards.  Sorry, Bully-Boy, et al. but not just yet... maybe not ever:

I had the exact same ROTTEN hunt/starve start-up I had back in November when this problem first surfaced!  That ultra-fast idle I had last night at shutdown-- which I surely could have used to keep from having to pump that gas pedal to keep the engine alive-- was nowhere to be found, damn it!  After dying a few times after I went into Reverse, I finally got out of the drive way with all kinds of heaving and cutting out.  I drove down to the end of the block in second gear as usual (I have a neighborhood-menace image to maintain!) and things started to clear up a bit.  By the time I got out of the subdivision, things looked as though they may actually be getting back to normal... higher boost to boot!

I dreaded the coming of the 5-minute breakdown, but it never came!  Things were looking up!!  A little hesitation at stoplights but all else was going fine otherwise.  I then decided to drive to the hardware store to try to get more screws to fill up all those vacancies in the dashboard whenever I get back to buttoning everything up again... after I'm sure the problem is SOLVED.  Stopping off for a brief shopping sprint would allow me to see how the car would do under a warmed-up start situation.  (The old, pre-November 'Clone would always catch and run away after 1/2 to 2 revs at warm-crank-up... almost as good as an electric motor!)

But, it was not to be.  I got the starter going and NO fast-catch... just the same old COLD-START-UP HORSES#1T I've been getting... all the same hunting/starving while I work the pedal like Gene Krupa!  I HATE BEING RIGHT ALL THE $%^&%$ TIME!!!  Especially when I end up in the victim's spot both ways!!  Then, the batch-firing smoothes-out, the engine climbs another 1800 rpm, and away we go-- till the next surprise breakdown.  No more incidents that trip.  Maybe this ECM is just a "slow-learner."  I'll just let it set another few daze or so before I start tweaking things again....

Road-test Three will commence around 1am tonight and last, with assorted stop-offs, 'til 4:30am or so.  I don't think I'll get stranded; I never did before but came awful close a few times lately with the old ECM and cold weather.  Who knows what I'll face tonight, but I had this same combo running like a TOP in that Typhoon before I took the wheels off last year....

Stay tuned... and try to THINK what else this Problem could be,

Dennis O.
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jim Sloan 
To: 'DOlivares' 
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: RE: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!

Dennis,

Since I said that I had a spare ecm, I have sold two.  I have another one with an injector driver upgrade, and I usually sell them for $75.  Let me know if you are interested.  I could send it to you as a loaner for a substitution test if you want......pay me if it works, or send it back.

Your best option may be car-part.com.  1227749 and 16198263 are the 2 part numbers to look for.

Let me know.

Jim

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  From: DOlivares [mailto:seravilo at netzero.net] 
  Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:01 AM
  To: Jim Sloan
  Cc: syty at syty.org
  Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
  Importance: High

  Jim,

      When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the plug-ins or the whole ECM Box?  Based on my latest tests, the FI Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either a thermal or a timing (delay) problem.  I understand how SEUs can screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car!  I wonder who sent that cosmic ray my way...?

      I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no better.  The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp.  Sunday, the thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well into warm, closed-loopery.  This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it!  I can't even take it to a garage or even the dealer!  They know less than I do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS crap for well over a THOU$AND!  Do you know where I can get a new ECM... CHEAP?  Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs?  Electrodyne or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is the time to go the DFI route once and for all...?  Unfortunately, neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that Delco firmware just yet.

      In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old Horse #773.  IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 upgrade I want to eventually put back.

  Any thoughts?

  D.O. 
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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: DOlivares 
  To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org 
  Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped!

  Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis!
  [You know who you are.]

  Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a couple of bushes for good measure!  This episode has been going on for nearly a month.  As I said, I'm running out of hardware to swap-out.  The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip.  

  The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to full operating temperature... just after everything had been going just fine.  That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than ever, otherwise.  This is no "intermittent."  This is pure predictability!  And my experience with bad chips and modules is that they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... before failing outright.  That's not what's occurring.  Even so, I might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs....

  Keep thinking... what else could it be???  What's the connection to cold/cool ambient temperature?

  D.O. 
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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jim Sloan 
  To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org 
  Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM
  Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped!

  Happy New Year Dennis!

  I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters.  You could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that out, if your build isn't too radical.

  I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and have seen quite a few fail in weird ways.  Let me know if you need one.

  Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html .

  Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them.

  Jim  

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    From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of DOlivares
    Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM
    To: syty at syty.org
    Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
    Importance: High

    Who watches The Watcher?  

    Who advises The Guru?

    Who assists The Good Samaritan?

    I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to troubleshoot my li'l pony):

    Meanwhile, I NEED HELP!  With my laptop in pieces all over the bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the usual suspects:

    Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any indication.  I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from popping-out of the side-gear in the differential.  HAH!  More bad advice and I ended up taking a cab home....  More about that Horror Show in a later mailing.

    Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180° or so.  I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more!  Here's what happens:

    Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro.  Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while.  Now, it's safe to put her in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to an idle or coast speed.  

    THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare.  (Ain't this global-warming great!)  However, on a couple of occasions when I did have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES light comes on!  Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again.  I barely even recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it.  Driving on warmer days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle is smooth as is the rest of drivability.  Warm start-ups see a few moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds.  I've NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching!  Now, it's time for some wretching!!  All that ever gets logged in the way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful!

    Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all!  Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be switched again.  So I did... one at a time to see if I could fault-locate the culprit that way.  No dice!  I'm running out of hardware to replace!  I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the engine's as well as my own!

    WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS?  Be nice, now....

    Dennis O.

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