STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!

Fri Feb 3 15:04:58 CST 2006

Now I know THREE people with ECM problems!

Happy daze!!  It only took a decade or so....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message ----- 
From: eqs at frontiernet.net 
To: DOlivares 
Cc: bullyhart at aol.com ; leroy at sunflower.com ; syty at syty.org 
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!

When I bought my GN the car would not start. The previous owner sold it 
to me for a low price with 24K on the clock. I diagnosed the problem to 
be the ECM. A trip to the parts yard gave me a used ECM for $50. The 
car started right up after it's replacement.

Quoting DOlivares <seravilo at netzero.net>:

> And I never had a bad ECM in my life-- or knew anyone else who did!
> Clean living paying off...?  What does that say about YOU?  ...must 
> not be wearing your anti-ESD straps... or rubbers... or something 
> equally disastrous....
>
> I wouldn't trust anything more complex than a cruise-control unit 
> from a junkyard either... no bargain in the short run.
>
> I also know a little more than you suspect about MEMCALs, etc.  It's 
> the FAILURES I'm unacquainted with!
>
> D.O.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bullyhart at aol.com
> To: seravilo at netzero.net ; leroy at sunflower.com
> Cc: syty at syty.org
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:39 PM
> Subject: Re: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
>
>
> ECMs = 40 bucks at most boneyards in San Antonio.
>
> ECM is the motherboard that is housed in the silver case.  The memcal 
> is what you have been replacing (10-1 todd chip to Stock and back) by 
> removing the access panel and popping it out.
>
> I have 3 ECMs in my garage that are hosed, and one that is good.  ECM 
> problems were actually somewhat common and addressed by GM at various 
> points during the 7749 production cycle.
> Daron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DOlivares <seravilo at netzero.net>
> To: Jim Sloan <leroy at sunflower.com>
> Cc: syty at syty.org
> Sent: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:01:11 -0600
> Subject: STILL [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
>
>
> Jim,
>
>    When you say you keep around a "Spare ECM," do you mean the 
> plug-ins or the whole ECM Box?  Based on my latest tests, the FI 
> Drivers-- and whatever controls them-- are being victimized by either 
> a thermal or a timing (delay) problem.  I understand how SEUs can 
> screw up chips IN SPACE or other rad-hostile environments, but I 
> kinda figured I was safe from all that junk in my car!  I wonder who 
> sent that cosmic ray my way...?
>
>    I took out the 10-n-1 Interface yesterday but things are really no 
> better.  The Injectors batch-pulse fine then weakly at unpredictable 
> times and for durations up to 30 seconds until I reach full-warm-up 
> after about 7 minutes, depending on ambient air-temp.  Sunday, the 
> thing actually started pooping out (choking and sputtering but 
> throwing nothing more than a Code 44, which is practically useless 
> information!) on the expressway at 70mph... long after I was well 
> into warm, closed-loopery.  This thing is getting REALLY BAD and, as 
> admitted before, I don't really know what to do about it!  I can't 
> even take it to a garage or even the dealer!  They know less than I 
> do and will only pull all my goodies and restore me to overpriced NOS 
> crap for well over a THOU$AND!  Do you know where I can get a new 
> ECM... CHEAP?  Know anybody who reconditions old ECMs?  Electrodyne 
> or Spearco or somone like that had a "E6" plug-compatible ECM which 
> was PC-programmable, but I forgot all the details... maybe this is 
> the time to go the DFI route once and for all...?  Unfortunately, 
> neither my wallet or my temperament are willing to part with all that 
> Delco firmware just yet.
>
>    In a few hours, I'm gonna gut the whole ECM out of my 
> still-on-jackstands Typhoon and do more swap-in tests on the Old 
> Horse #773.  IF that solves my problem-- and I still have profound 
> reservations-- I'll still need to do something in the way of 
> rehabilitating my old MEMCAL or ECM-- not to mention the 10-n-1 
> upgrade I want to eventually put back.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> D.O.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DOlivares
> To: Jim Sloan ; syty at syty.org
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 12:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
>
>
> Thanks... so far, and happy New Year... et pax hominibus boni voluntatis!
> [You know who you are.]
>
> Unfortunately, I have tried all those diagnostic trees-- even a 
> couple of bushes for good measure!  This episode has been going on 
> for nearly a month.  As I said, I'm running out of hardware to 
> swap-out.  The only things I haven't diddled with is the EST Module 
> in the Distributor and of course the ECM/chip.
>
> The reason I haven't fooled with those things is that the misbehavior 
> complained of is SO PREDICTABLE and only afflicts COLD-START-UP 
> conditions, except when it's really cold outside in which case I will 
> get precisely ONE chug-a-lug spasm about 5 minutes into the run-up to 
> full operating temperature... just after everything had been going 
> just fine.  That's the worst of it... as far as I can tell without a 
> scantool... seat-of-the-pants power and smoothness is better than 
> ever, otherwise.  This is no "intermittent."  This is pure 
> predictability!  And my experience with bad chips and modules is that 
> they either fail outright or exhibit sporadic, random upsets... 
> before failing outright.  That's not what's occurring.  Even so, I 
> might drop in my spare EST (Holley Annihilator) just for laughs....
>
> Keep thinking... what else could it be???  What's the connection to 
> cold/cool ambient temperature?
>
> D.O.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Sloan
> To: 'DOlivares' ; syty at syty.org
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:11 AM
> Subject: RE: [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
>
>
> Happy New Year Dennis!
>
> I've had hardware problems with several of the 10-1 adapters.  You 
> could swap back to the stock memcal (and map sensor) to rule that 
> out, if your build isn't too radical.
>
> I usually keep at least one spare ecm for a substitution test, and 
> have seen quite a few fail in weird ways.  Let me know if you need 
> one.
>
> Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics, and follow the 
> diagnostics in the service manual http://syty.org/old/d&e-code44.html 
> .
>
> Just a few ideas, if you haven't already tried them.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf 
> Of DOlivares
>  Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 7:36 PM
>  To: syty at syty.org
>  Subject: [Syty] Broke & Stumped!
>  Importance: High
>
>
>  Who watches The Watcher?
>
>  Who advises The Guru?
>
>  Who assists The Good Samaritan?
>
>  I think we're about to find out pretty soon-- at least until I can 
> get my Lapdog running again (and one of the diagnostic programs to 
> troubleshoot my li'l pony):
>
>  Meanwhile, I NEED HELP!  With my laptop in pieces all over the 
> bench, I can't run DIACOM or DATALINK to give me clues about the 
> usual suspects:
>
>  Clean-livin' doesn't always pay off if my holidaze so far are any 
> indication.  I spent Christmas Eve on a carlift taking apart my 
> right-front axle-- again!-- after being assured by our local 
> "Gear-Guru" (who fully rebuilt that differential less than 6 months 
> before I started hearing that same CLUNKING on left turns again) that 
> all I needed was a new cir-clip (GM #14041989) to keep the axle from 
> popping-out of the side-gear in the differential.  HAH!  More bad 
> advice and I ended up taking a cab home....  More about that Horror 
> Show in a later mailing.
>
>  Meanwhile, we got our first technical freeze down here in what was 
> becoming tropical San Antone on Nov. 17th and our first hard-freeze, 
> appropriately, on Dec. 7th, and somewhere in between those times ol' 
> Syclone #773 began throwing fits during start-up and for the first 5 
> or 6 minutes until the water jacket hits and stays at 180° or so.  
> I'm stumped for the first time in a decade or more!  Here's what 
> happens:
>
>  Since the new Walbro fuel-pump went in a few months ago, cranking 
> times are way down... engine catches pretty quick, but now it won't 
> stay lit and "choke" with the new IAC, which went in along with a new 
> TPS and remote-adjustable FPR about a month before the new Walbro.  
> Now, I have to feather the pedal once the ignition gets going and 
> hold the throttle open a bit while the IAC hunts for about a dozen 
> cycles making the tach swing about 1200 rpm back and forth until we 
> hit the "sweet spot" and the engine takes off smoothly and the 
> IAC-hunting stops, at least for a while.  Now, it's safe to put her 
> in gear and drive away as long as I keep a little positive bias in 
> the pedal for the next few minutes every time I have to slow down to 
> an idle or coast speed.
>
>  THIS PROBLEM IS WICKEDLY WORSE ON COLD DAYS, where ambient air is in 
> the 40s or below, which thankfully is rare.  (Ain't this 
> global-warming great!)  However, on a couple of occasions when I did 
> have to drive in the 30s-- and even after reaching full-warm-up 
> temperature-- the engine starts cutting out seriously as the SES 
> light comes on!  Now, we're talking some MAJOR pumping of the pedal 
> to keep things lit and if I can get on a clear piece of road and 
> cruise a spell at 35 mph or better the problem goes away completely, 
> until I shutdown and the engine gets cold again.  I barely even 
> recognize that SES light... hardly ever see it.  Driving on warmer 
> days never sees a recurrence of that mid-period cutting-out, and idle 
> is smooth as is the rest of drivability.  Warm start-ups see a few 
> moments of that IAC-hunting, but the rpm-sweeps are only on the order 
> of 500rpm and the whole anomaly goes away in about 30 seconds.  I've 
> NEVER encountered anything like this in my many years of wrenching!  
> Now, it's time for some wretching!!  All that ever gets logged in the 
> way of a trouble-code is 44... not too helpful!
>
>  Naturally, I replaced the O2 sensor-- no improvement at all!  
> Everything described above instinctually told me this was a weird 
> thermal transient in the injector-drive circuits or else the MAT, CTS 
> or MAP I replaced (for the hell of it) 3 years ago needed to be 
> switched again.  So I did... one at a time to see if I could 
> fault-locate the culprit that way.  No dice!  I'm running out of 
> hardware to replace!  I've even tried setting that 10-to-1 Chip to 
> different settings, but the same nasty behavior persists-- the 
> engine's as well as my own!
>
>  WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT MY PROBLEM(S) IS?  Be nice, now....
>
>  Dennis O.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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