From lowell at raisongroup.com Wed Aug 1 07:08:21 2007 From: lowell at raisongroup.com (Lowell Raison) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:08:21 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Overboost Message-ID: <000001c7d434$af142770$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code 31 Overboost. When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this causing the overboost? If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? Lowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070801/4d6f7c10/attachment.html From MCole at sta.samsung.com Wed Aug 1 08:53:07 2007 From: MCole at sta.samsung.com (Marion Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:53:07 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Overboost In-Reply-To: <000001c7d434$af142770$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Message-ID: <4A2DFEA767C0CB4396FF2CE75559A48801C76442@mx2.telecom.sna.samsung.com> The most usual suspect is the overboost controller and more specifically, the plastic tube that runs from the turbo body to the controller relay mounted on the toop of the turbo. It is broken fairly easily. Can be replaced with a reinforced rubber hose (such as fuel line hose) but be sure to run a wide circle radius so it does not kink. They probably broke the plastic tube while doing their work (I speak from my own experience :-) ). ________________________________ From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of Lowell Raison Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:08 AM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Overboost Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code 31 Overboost. When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this causing the overboost? If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? Lowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070801/2cf35f9f/attachment.html From wcalcagno at verizon.net Wed Aug 1 09:08:39 2007 From: wcalcagno at verizon.net (Bill Calcagno) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:08:39 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Overboost In-Reply-To: <4A2DFEA767C0CB4396FF2CE75559A48801C76442@mx2.telecom.sna.samsung.com> References: <4A2DFEA767C0CB4396FF2CE75559A48801C76442@mx2.telecom.sna.samsung.com> Message-ID: <616F37E6-B2CC-4E37-8926-07127D690FC4@verizon.net> If it didn't overboost before the exhaust was changed, and it overboosts now that the cat has been removed, the most likely cause is the missing cat. The cat creates a certain amount of backpressure that the turbo most overcome while making boost -- without that backpressure to slow it down, the turbo will make more boost more easily (and probably, too much boost). If the boost controller hose/tubing was the problem, it would have been overboosting before the exhaust work (unless, for some reason, you disturbed the hose/tubing while working on something else). However, because the hose/tubing is also a common problem, it is always worth checking. If the missing cat is the cause (and I suspect it is), there are two ways to address the problem: First, you can always re-install a cat (which is required to be street-legal, but a lot of areas don't check). Second, you can reduce the preload on the wastegate actuator, by unscrewing the rod end a couple of turns to lengthen the rod -- this is much easier (and cheaper) than re-installing the cat, but can increase turbo lag. Good Luck, Bill P.S. You could also install an aftermarket boost controller, but that can be expensive and somewhat risky if not adjusted/tuned correctly. On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:53 AM, Marion Cole wrote: > The most usual suspect is the overboost controller and more > specifically, the plastic tube that runs from the turbo body to the > controller relay mounted on the toop of the turbo. It is broken > fairly easily. Can be replaced with a reinforced rubber hose (such > as fuel line hose) but be sure to run a wide circle radius so it > does not kink. They probably broke the plastic tube while doing > their work (I speak from my own experience J ). > > > > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of Lowell Raison > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:08 AM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Overboost > > > > Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the > exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT > it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code > 31 Overboost. > > > > When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this > causing the overboost? > > > > If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? > > > > Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty From lowell at raisongroup.com Thu Aug 2 19:43:47 2007 From: lowell at raisongroup.com (Lowell Raison) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:43:47 -0400 Subject: [Syty] overboost Message-ID: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Replaced the tube and checked the wastegate. It seems to be working right. Does not shut down every time, but it is not very comforting knowing it might shut off right when you need the power. When it doesn't shut down, it runs strong. Beginning to think I might need the CAT back on. Anyone know where I can get datamaster (along with tutoring in how to read it) and cable? With two Tys and no mechanics in the area it is probably time to get it. Lowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070802/6ad18afb/attachment.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Thu Aug 2 21:32:41 2007 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:32:41 -0400 Subject: [Syty] overboost In-Reply-To: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> References: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Message-ID: <20070802223241.8f11rb87rw2swwsc@webmail.frontiernet.net> Run a high flow catalytic instead but there still something wrong there. Quoting Lowell Raison : > Replaced the tube and checked the wastegate. It seems to be working right. > Does not shut down every time, but it is not very comforting knowing it > might shut off right when you need the power. When it doesn't shut down, it > runs strong. Beginning to think I might need the CAT back on. > > > > Anyone know where I can get datamaster (along with tutoring in how to read > it) and cable? With two Tys and no mechanics in the area it is probably time > to get it. > > Lowell > > > > From tydriver at turbols6.com Fri Aug 3 01:04:49 2007 From: tydriver at turbols6.com (tydriver@gmail.com) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 01:04:49 -0500 Subject: [Syty] overboost References: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> <20070802223241.8f11rb87rw2swwsc@webmail.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <005501c7d594$34a0d4a0$6601a8c0@ibm> I cant remember how this thread started in regards to how your truck is equipped.. If its a stock turbo/wastegate combination please read on.. If its aftermarket disregard the following. It has been common knowledge for sometime (atleast as long as I have been in SyTy's (9-10 years)) that it will overboost with the stock wastegate. Its been proven time and time again that the stock setup is "marginal" at best WITH THE CAT CONVERTER IN PLACE. I too had problems with mine wandering when I started to crank up the boost past the stock specs (even with the cat in place on my truck). The wastegate cylinder & spring setup is just too small to accomodate the pressure change with no catalytic converter in place (i.e. the exhaust flow increases enough to cause problems here). The best option is to consider aftermarket wastegate setup, or if its still available, there used to be replacement wastegate actuators that were larger than stock and helped address this problem (think it was a hybrid off a Buick setup). Most people get an external and have the internal welded up if they elect to stay with the stock setup. Hope this information helps, best of luck ! Todd '92 Ty #0488 <-- Conversion to Turbo LS6 power underway. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] overboost > Run a high flow catalytic instead but there still something wrong there. > > > Quoting Lowell Raison : > >> Replaced the tube and checked the wastegate. It seems to be working >> right. >> Does not shut down every time, but it is not very comforting knowing it >> might shut off right when you need the power. When it doesn't shut down, >> it >> runs strong. Beginning to think I might need the CAT back on. >> >> >> >> Anyone know where I can get datamaster (along with tutoring in how to >> read >> it) and cable? With two Tys and no mechanics in the area it is probably >> time >> to get it. >> >> Lowell >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From brassmonkey at ec.rr.com Fri Aug 3 15:00:52 2007 From: brassmonkey at ec.rr.com (Mel) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:00:52 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Fw: Welcome to the "Marketing" mailing list Message-ID: <001c01c7d608$fefc79b0$b9ff3842@mgochnour> Does anyone know if this is a scam or legit? Cruzin' Mel Man Semper Fi Keep your fork ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Welcome to the "Marketing" mailing list > Welcome to the Marketing at sytynationals.com mailing list! > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > marketing at sytynationals.com > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://lists.sytynationals.com/mailman/listinfo/marketing > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > > http://lists.sytynationals.com/mailman/options/marketing/brassmonkey%40ec.rr.com > > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > > Marketing-request at sytynationals.com > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > You must know your password to change your options (including changing > the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > > moidukbu > > Normally, Mailman will remind you of your sytynationals.com mailing > list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you > prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to > unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on > your options page that will email your current password to you. From turbodig at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 15:23:39 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Syty] Overboost Message-ID: <933733.3269.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The stock system, at its best, was barely able to control boost. Further, it's very finicky to system changes - the chip calibration was done for a specific fueling cal, with a specific amount of backpressure. Even in totally stock form, on a cool day at lower altitudes, you could get it to trip the overboost threshold. Sounds like you've done the easiest fix, which is to take a turn or two out of the WG rod. Making sure that the rubber hoses and plastic lines are all intact after 15 years is another very good thing. Squeeze/Bend the elbows... if they tear, they needed replacing. Another option - have someone burn you a stock chip that removes the overboost limiter. This comes with a bit of a risk- if the WG happens to sieze, and you're not watching it close, it's relatively easy to have them hit 28 psi +. On street gas this is a quick motor death. DataMaster is still available at www.ttspowersystems.com. Be advised that the program has many problems with newer laptops that don't have an on-board serial port. Later, Dig --------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:08:21 -0400 From: "Lowell Raison" Subject: [Syty] Overboost To: Message-ID: <000001c7d434$af142770$0401000a at hewlettmi4yof2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code 31 Overboost. When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this causing the overboost? If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? Lowell -- From pbguerlain at att.net Mon Aug 6 15:18:52 2007 From: pbguerlain at att.net (Peter Guerlain) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:18:52 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Shift Cable Message-ID: <007601c7d867$01da18d0$6701a8c0@PBGDELL> Can anyone who has the original OEM transmission gearshift cable on their Typhoon tell me if it is adjustable or not? A shop replaced the original cable on my '92 Ty with an aftermarket one a couple of months ago and it hasn't shifted correctly since, binding up like crazy until the new cable broke. It looks to me like the new cable (Dorman 16662) doesn't fit correctly even though it is listed for the application, it appears to be about an inch short between the bracket and the arm on the transmission end. There is no way to adjust the cable since it has eyelets on both ends and neither the cable jacket collets or the brackets have any adjustment either. The truck wouldn't go into park so the mechanic bent the bracket towards the lever on the trans which helped it go into park but misaligned the cable so badly that it was binding and finally broke the eyelet on one end of the new cable. Since I didn't take out the original cable I don't know if it was adjustable but I'd like to know if it was. No one other than Dorman makes an aftermarket product for the application. I'd also like to know if anyone else has used the Dorman cable, with or without success. Thank you, Peter Guerlain From Mr2879sy at aol.com Mon Aug 6 16:19:41 2007 From: Mr2879sy at aol.com (Mr2879sy at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:19:41 EDT Subject: [Syty] Shift Cable Message-ID: George Blake makes a replacement cable CBLAKE3 at cinci.rr.com it's the only one I would buy marty-mj www.sportmachines.com www.syborgtwinturbo.com In a message dated 8/6/2007 3:24:11 PM Central Daylight Time, pbguerlain at att.net writes: > Can anyone who has the original OEM transmission gearshift cable on their > Typhoon tell me if it is adjustable or not? A shop replaced the original > cable on my '92 Ty with an aftermarket one a couple of months ago and it > hasn't shifted correctly since, binding up like crazy until the new cable > broke. It looks to me like the new cable (Dorman 16662) doesn't fit > correctly even though it is listed for the application, it appears to be > about an inch short between the bracket and the arm on the transmission end. > There is no way to adjust the cable since it has eyelets on both ends and > neither the cable jacket collets or the brackets have any adjustment either. > The truck wouldn't go into park so the mechanic bent the bracket towards the > lever on the trans which helped it go into park but misaligned the cable so > badly that it was binding and finally broke the eyelet on one end of the new > cable. Since I didn't take out the original cable I don't know if it was > adjustable but I'd like to know if it was. No one other than Dorman makes > an aftermarket product for the application. I'd also like to know if anyone > else has used the Dorman cable, with or without success. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070806/2766fe5f/attachment.html From Invent416 at aol.com Mon Aug 6 16:30:27 2007 From: Invent416 at aol.com (Invent416 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:30:27 EDT Subject: [Syty] Bow Tie Block Message-ID: Does any one know where I can get a 4.3 Bow Tie Block with steel caps ? The GM performance catalog number is 10185051. It appears that GM has stopped making them. They have another block 2553433 but it does not have all steel caps. Just the 2 center caps are steel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob Kopelman ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070806/76d9c962/attachment.html From sy1891 at cableone.net Tue Aug 7 19:33:35 2007 From: sy1891 at cableone.net (Big Dave) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:33:35 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Bow Tie Block References: Message-ID: <006b01c7d953$c17742c0$0b00a8c0@C1411337C> Try Mike Lee at RaceProvenMotors.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Invent416 at aol.com To: syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:30 PM Subject: [Syty] Bow Tie Block Does any one know where I can get a 4.3 Bow Tie Block with steel caps ? The GM performance catalog number is 10185051. It appears that GM has stopped making them. They have another block 2553433 but it does not have all steel caps. Just the 2 center caps are steel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob Kopelman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070807/f5702ed3/attachment.html From gary at thesantacruzhouse.com Fri Aug 17 05:58:43 2007 From: gary at thesantacruzhouse.com (Gary H) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:58:43 -0700 Subject: [Syty] Looking to buy a smog machine Message-ID: <46C57F63.7050704@thesantacruzhouse.com> I'm thinking of buying an old smog machine to pretest my cars before taking it to the shop. The old smog machines circa 80-90's are relatively cheap now. Anyone know what to look for when buying these old smog machines? Can the old machines measure NOx (I'm sure they all can measure HC and CO)? I have absolutely no experience with these machines. Thanks, Gary From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Aug 17 14:12:21 2007 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:12:21 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Looking to buy a smog machine References: <46C57F63.7050704@thesantacruzhouse.com> Message-ID: <001701c7e102$8af191e0$20406b43@coresys1> Those old sniffers by Sun and such had no capability with NOx... only unburned-HC and CO. It's been a long time, but I seem to recollect that the weakest link in those instruments was the SENSORS. They were highly susceptible to contamination, mechanical shock damage (like they do regularly on American Body Shop-- the funniest show currently on the planet!), and just plain aging. The HCs were the least durable but were wider in "bandwidth" than the solid-state versions we all drive around with in our vehicles today. Sun used to recommend a sensor-change-out every 3 years or so just on principle.... And that leads me to my recommendation for you: DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY on one of those old cabinets, unless you could get it for free or at an obscene discount, as I did... unless you're not that interested in precision and are only looking for trended results. I recall that J.C. Whippeny & Co. used to sell a portable all-solid-state tester from England for about $300 for either CO or HC. I've got it-- still new in the box-- lying around somewhere and, on paper, it looked great! That was nearly 10 years ago... but that's the way to go: Go modern technology! There's several catalog outfits that market ultra-reliable/accurate handheld gas-sensors of all types and ranges to ASHRAE, OSHA, and EPA-techs and such... or the Tenneco or Borg-Warner suppliers to the DOT bunch.... THAT'S the direction I would follow if I even cared about that crap anymore. A used/refurbished handheld unit would last you for years. D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary H To: syty at syty.org Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: [Syty] Looking to buy a smog machine I'm thinking of buying an old smog machine to pretest my cars before taking it to the shop. The old smog machines circa 80-90's are relatively cheap now. Anyone know what to look for when buying these old smog machines? Can the old machines measure NOx (I'm sure they all can measure HC and CO)? I have absolutely no experience with these machines. Thanks, Gary _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070817/77565bdf/attachment.html From larrybrown at prolynx.com Sun Aug 19 16:02:26 2007 From: larrybrown at prolynx.com (Larry Brown) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:02:26 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Message-ID: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> BlankHowdy (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did the Hot Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" for a fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane would be a limiting factor? The rules state: -10 gallons of 93 octane -30 mile "driving test" -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying (to avoid cheating). - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, NHRA rules (for posted times) - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" track was used with a pro tree. Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my impression that they require high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane (as they wont allow power adders other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, prochargers/superchargers are allowed. So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a small block EFI Camero won this year (a first). Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it would be neat if a SyTy could wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the detonation "factor" prohibit SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and 11s, with the 8sec ones finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears that they do have several sponsors. While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some SyTy folks, I never see owners enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. thanks in advance Larry Brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/d9259fb3/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/d9259fb3/attachment.gif From Stainless300 at aol.com Sun Aug 19 21:49:24 2007 From: Stainless300 at aol.com (Stainless300 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:49:24 EDT Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Message-ID: Hey Larry! Any direction on where and how to go about getting my wheel lock tool replaced? IT slipped off while I was putting the cap back on and now I cannot get it to work on any of my wheels. Thanks Jeff Stainless300 at aol.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/c49b69d8/attachment.html From Merk1993 at aol.com Sun Aug 19 22:43:17 2007 From: Merk1993 at aol.com (Merk1993 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:17 EDT Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Message-ID: mcguard will do it. semd them a pic of your pattern and for $12...they will send you a new one. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/640fbef9/attachment.html From sytydave at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 15:24:15 2007 From: sytydave at gmail.com (Dave Goodhue) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:24:15 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... In-Reply-To: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> References: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> Message-ID: Right off the bat 10 gallons in a fast SyTy would require a sumped tank. Obviously the lack of high boost would affect the top end of motors, however I wonder how 'slow 'the high 8's, low 9's Sy's would be running with low boost. How high of boost could they run on 93 octane? 15 psi? 17 psi? As far as I know the really fast Sy aren't running really big boost numbers (They are all under 30psi and closer to 25psi) Engine coatings could help with detonation as well as water injection, thought I suspect most of those truck utilize them already. Even with Vortec and race heads we obvious don't have the best combustion chamber for detonation. Stock Evo's peak at 21psi and settle to 17psi. I think with aftermarket tuns have them peaking 22-23 psi and running 19-20psi on pump gas. They aren't running low timing like a stock SyTy either (14 degree). Fortunately SyTy do a have a relatively good amount of displacememnt for factory turbo motor, however with an endless choice of motor in a compettition like this a turbo LS7 would have a huge advantage. I think one of the fast Sy's could place in the list given the prior times. The only race SyTy is going to kick ass is if the require real full depth street tires and don't allow drage radials.. On 8/19/07, Larry Brown wrote: > > Howdy > (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did the Hot > Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) > > It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" for a > fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, > for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane would be a > limiting factor? The rules state: > -10 gallons of 93 octane > -30 mile "driving test" > -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying (to avoid > cheating). > - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, NHRA rules > (for posted times) > - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" track was > used with a pro tree. > > Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my impression > that they require > high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane (as they > wont allow power adders > other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, > prochargers/superchargers are allowed. > So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a small block > EFI Camero won this year (a first). > > Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it would be > neat if a SyTy could > wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the detonation > "factor" prohibit > SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and 11s, with > the 8sec ones > finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). > > I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears that they do > have several sponsors. > While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some SyTy folks, I > never see owners > enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. > > thanks in advance > Larry Brown > > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070821/6a2f93c9/attachment.html From larrybrown at prolynx.com Tue Aug 21 16:42:46 2007 From: larrybrown at prolynx.com (Larry Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:42:46 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... References: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> Message-ID: <00c401c7e43c$37baace0$0300a8c0@larryPC> Thanks for the Reply on PGD (pump gas drags)...I was just wondering how well a syty would do. Background: Hot Rod Mag sponsors PGD at Memphis with street/strip muscle cars/trucks. The rules call for invitation-only (300 entries, 75 selections for variety); NHRA rules for speeds you run; must have all street equipment like workig lights, horn, registration/insurance/license; vehicles must have stock or bolt on front suspension, and weight at least 3,3000 lbs. Tires no wider than 11.25 ", no wheelie bars; must pass their tech inspection, & gas is drained and filled with 10 gallons of their 93 octane; power adders such as water injection can be used, but no other fuel burned. Every competitor must complete a 30 mile drive. Once at the track each vehicle is allowed a single pass to qualify. Racers are placed on a sportsman ladder (#1 races #17, #2 races #18...) and run heads up on a pro tree. On the surface: Cars are DQ for overheating, flat tires, a lack of tire traction (due to cold track and min tire width restriction & high hp, running quicker than your safety equipment, missing the 30 mile check point, illegal front suspension. lack of track tuning and such. Then the pro tree gets alot of drivers as do the sportsman ladder system. So the fastest rarely wins, and the slowest get eliminated/beat. So in the end...the final ten usually are a mix of mid-range vehicles. Since Syclones could meet the weight, and have awd for traction, and are very consistent (almost bracket like) they "appear" to have an edge in making the top 10.... if the 93 octane doesnt kill torque, boost, and hp. With good detonation prevention (maybe some nitrous and/or water injection, engine coating, etc) a Syclone/Typhoon might be a "sleeper". Not that I plan, have or could participate, but with all of the fast syclone/typhoon vehicles and even the pikes peak Syclone, an owner might do good if they had a large tubo`d (or twin turbo`d) a/c deleted V6 (oddfire or evenfire) or V8 AWD Sy/Ty truck at this event (maybe). For some reason none of the Buick guys show up either. Its probably a wild idea, but I thought it fun to speculate. I rarely see mention of Sy/Tys at any sponsored events other than our own syty.net but do know that the Silver State, One-lap of America, Pikes Peak Race, and some autocrossing events have participants. Maybe its cuz owners dont know of such events. oh well...just delete if you find this uninteresting or stupid. I like it when I find a magazine with a Typhoon or Syclone in it (other than being advertised for sale....lol). Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Goodhue To: Larry Brown Cc: SyTy List Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Right off the bat 10 gallons in a fast SyTy would require a sumped tank. Obviously the lack of high boost would affect the top end of motors, however I wonder how 'slow 'the high 8's, low 9's Sy's would be running with low boost. How high of boost could they run on 93 octane? 15 psi? 17 psi? As far as I know the really fast Sy aren't running really big boost numbers (They are all under 30psi and closer to 25psi) Engine coatings could help with detonation as well as water injection, thought I suspect most of those truck utilize them already. Even with Vortec and race heads we obvious don't have the best combustion chamber for detonation. Stock Evo's peak at 21psi and settle to 17psi. I think with aftermarket tuns have them peaking 22-23 psi and running 19-20psi on pump gas. They aren't running low timing like a stock SyTy either (14 degree). Fortunately SyTy do a have a relatively good amount of displacememnt for factory turbo motor, however with an endless choice of motor in a compettition like this a turbo LS7 would have a huge advantage. I think one of the fast Sy's could place in the list given the prior times. The only race SyTy is going to kick ass is if the require real full depth street tires and don't allow drage radials.. On 8/19/07, Larry Brown wrote: Howdy (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did the Hot Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" for a fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane would be a limiting factor? The rules state: -10 gallons of 93 octane -30 mile "driving test" -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying (to avoid cheating). - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, NHRA rules (for posted times) - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" track was used with a pro tree. Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my impression that they require high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane (as they wont allow power adders other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, prochargers/superchargers are allowed. So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a small block EFI Camero won this year (a first). Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it would be neat if a SyTy could wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the detonation "factor" prohibit SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and 11s, with the 8sec ones finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears that they do have several sponsors. While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some SyTy folks, I never see owners enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. thanks in advance Larry Brown _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070821/761c6257/attachment.html From turbodig at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 21:51:58 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Syty] Re: Syty Digest, Vol 26, Issue 3 Message-ID: <955620.4846.qm@web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Re: Pump gas drags Seems like it's tough to beat big blocks in these things... raw cubes can produce more HP on lower octane. Really, a 580 inch big-block with a couple of 76bb turbos on ~18-19 psi would be tough to beat. 80e for a trans. Outside of that, a built small block with similar sized turbos, and some reeeely good heads. I think from a traction angle, you could play. Can get around the 11" tire thing, easy. Big question is the "water injection" part. Is Methanol ok, or just water? Gotta be a solid 8 second player, then back the thing off to mid 9s. We're not terribly consistent, neither are the buick guys, which is why they generally don't play. I'd still build the biggest block I could, with turbos, and the water injection. You could make 1500+ HP. Putting that to the ground, would be the big deal. Dig ----- Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... To: "SyTy List" Message-ID: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0 at larryPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" From eqs at frontiernet.net Tue Aug 21 21:54:51 2007 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:54:51 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... In-Reply-To: <00c401c7e43c$37baace0$0300a8c0@larryPC> References: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> <00c401c7e43c$37baace0$0300a8c0@larryPC> Message-ID: <20070821225451.c9vw5ycwodcgkkck@webmail.frontiernet.net> Something similar was done in the "real street eliminator" covered by car craft magazine 1992. The rules were less stringent but the syclone came in forth in this order against: 1989 mustang, 1986 corvette, 1988 supra, 1991 syclone, 1987 grand national, 1970 chevelle, 1972 cutlass, 1955 bel air, 1970 camaro, 1958 ford. The categories were: Acceleration, Slalom, Braking, fuel economy, craftsmanship, ride & Drive. Quoting Larry Brown : > Thanks for the Reply on PGD (pump gas drags)...I was just wondering > how well a syty would do. > > Background: Hot Rod Mag sponsors PGD at Memphis with street/strip > muscle cars/trucks. > The rules call for invitation-only (300 entries, 75 selections for > variety); NHRA rules for speeds you run; > must have all street equipment like workig lights, horn, > registration/insurance/license; vehicles must have > stock or bolt on front suspension, and weight at least 3,3000 lbs. > Tires no wider than 11.25 ", no wheelie bars; > must pass their tech inspection, & gas is drained and filled with 10 > gallons of their 93 octane; power adders > such as water injection can be used, but no other fuel burned. Every > competitor must complete a 30 mile > drive. Once at the track each vehicle is allowed a single pass to > qualify. Racers > are placed on a sportsman ladder (#1 races #17, #2 races #18...) and > run heads up on a pro tree. > > On the surface: Cars are DQ for overheating, flat tires, a lack of > tire traction (due to cold track and > min tire width restriction & high hp, running quicker than your > safety equipment, missing the 30 mile check point, > illegal front suspension. lack of track tuning and such. Then the > pro tree gets alot of drivers as do the > sportsman ladder system. So the fastest rarely wins, and the slowest > get eliminated/beat. > > So in the end...the final ten usually are a mix of mid-range vehicles. > Since Syclones could meet the weight, and have awd for traction, and are > very consistent (almost bracket like) they "appear" to have an edge > in making the top 10.... > if the 93 octane doesnt kill torque, boost, and hp. With good > detonation prevention (maybe some nitrous > and/or water injection, engine coating, etc) a Syclone/Typhoon might > be a "sleeper". > > Not that I plan, have or could participate, but with all of the fast > syclone/typhoon vehicles and even the > pikes peak Syclone, an owner might do good if they had a large > tubo`d (or twin turbo`d) > a/c deleted V6 (oddfire or evenfire) or V8 AWD Sy/Ty truck at this > event (maybe). For some > reason none of the Buick guys show up either. > > Its probably a wild idea, but I thought it fun to speculate. I > rarely see mention of Sy/Tys at any > sponsored events other than our own syty.net but do know that the > Silver State, One-lap of America, > Pikes Peak Race, and some autocrossing events have participants. > Maybe its cuz owners dont > know of such events. > > oh well...just delete if you find this uninteresting or stupid. I > like it when I find a magazine > with a Typhoon or Syclone in it (other than being advertised for > sale....lol). > > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Goodhue > To: Larry Brown > Cc: SyTy List > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... > > > Right off the bat 10 gallons in a fast SyTy would require a sumped tank. > > Obviously the lack of high boost would affect the top end of > motors, however I wonder how 'slow 'the high 8's, low 9's Sy's > would be running with low boost. > How high of boost could they run on 93 octane? 15 psi? 17 psi? As > far as I know the really fast Sy aren't running really big boost > numbers (They are all under 30psi and closer to 25psi) Engine > coatings could help with detonation as well as water injection, > thought I suspect most of those truck utilize them already. > > Even with Vortec and race heads we obvious don't have the best > combustion chamber for detonation. Stock Evo's peak at 21psi and > settle to 17psi. I think with aftermarket tuns have them peaking > 22-23 psi and running 19-20psi on pump gas. They aren't running low > timing like a stock SyTy either (14 degree). Fortunately SyTy do > a have a relatively good amount of displacememnt for factory turbo > motor, however with an endless choice of motor in a compettition > like this a turbo LS7 would have a huge advantage. > > I think one of the fast Sy's could place in the list given the > prior times. The only race SyTy is going to kick ass is if the > require real full depth street tires and don't allow drage radials.. > > > > On 8/19/07, Larry Brown wrote: > Howdy > (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did > the Hot Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) > > It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" > for a fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, > for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane > would be a limiting factor? The rules state: > -10 gallons of 93 octane > -30 mile "driving test" > -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying > (to avoid cheating). > - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, > NHRA rules (for posted times) > - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" > track was used with a pro tree. > > Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my > impression that they require > high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane > (as they wont allow power adders > other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, > prochargers/superchargers are allowed. > So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a > small block EFI Camero won this year (a first). > > Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it > would be neat if a SyTy could > wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the > detonation "factor" prohibit > SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and > 11s, with the 8sec ones > finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). > > I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears > that they do have several sponsors. > While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some > SyTy folks, I never see owners > enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. > > thanks in advance > Larry Brown > > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > > > From lowell at raisongroup.com Wed Aug 1 07:08:21 2007 From: lowell at raisongroup.com (Lowell Raison) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:08:21 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Overboost Message-ID: <000001c7d434$af142770$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code 31 Overboost. When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this causing the overboost? If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? Lowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070801/4d6f7c10/attachment-0001.html From MCole at sta.samsung.com Wed Aug 1 08:53:07 2007 From: MCole at sta.samsung.com (Marion Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:53:07 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Overboost In-Reply-To: <000001c7d434$af142770$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Message-ID: <4A2DFEA767C0CB4396FF2CE75559A48801C76442@mx2.telecom.sna.samsung.com> The most usual suspect is the overboost controller and more specifically, the plastic tube that runs from the turbo body to the controller relay mounted on the toop of the turbo. It is broken fairly easily. Can be replaced with a reinforced rubber hose (such as fuel line hose) but be sure to run a wide circle radius so it does not kink. They probably broke the plastic tube while doing their work (I speak from my own experience :-) ). ________________________________ From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On Behalf Of Lowell Raison Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:08 AM To: syty at syty.org Subject: [Syty] Overboost Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code 31 Overboost. When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this causing the overboost? If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? Lowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070801/2cf35f9f/attachment-0001.html From wcalcagno at verizon.net Wed Aug 1 09:08:39 2007 From: wcalcagno at verizon.net (Bill Calcagno) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:08:39 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Overboost In-Reply-To: <4A2DFEA767C0CB4396FF2CE75559A48801C76442@mx2.telecom.sna.samsung.com> References: <4A2DFEA767C0CB4396FF2CE75559A48801C76442@mx2.telecom.sna.samsung.com> Message-ID: <616F37E6-B2CC-4E37-8926-07127D690FC4@verizon.net> If it didn't overboost before the exhaust was changed, and it overboosts now that the cat has been removed, the most likely cause is the missing cat. The cat creates a certain amount of backpressure that the turbo most overcome while making boost -- without that backpressure to slow it down, the turbo will make more boost more easily (and probably, too much boost). If the boost controller hose/tubing was the problem, it would have been overboosting before the exhaust work (unless, for some reason, you disturbed the hose/tubing while working on something else). However, because the hose/tubing is also a common problem, it is always worth checking. If the missing cat is the cause (and I suspect it is), there are two ways to address the problem: First, you can always re-install a cat (which is required to be street-legal, but a lot of areas don't check). Second, you can reduce the preload on the wastegate actuator, by unscrewing the rod end a couple of turns to lengthen the rod -- this is much easier (and cheaper) than re-installing the cat, but can increase turbo lag. Good Luck, Bill P.S. You could also install an aftermarket boost controller, but that can be expensive and somewhat risky if not adjusted/tuned correctly. On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:53 AM, Marion Cole wrote: > The most usual suspect is the overboost controller and more > specifically, the plastic tube that runs from the turbo body to the > controller relay mounted on the toop of the turbo. It is broken > fairly easily. Can be replaced with a reinforced rubber hose (such > as fuel line hose) but be sure to run a wide circle radius so it > does not kink. They probably broke the plastic tube while doing > their work (I speak from my own experience J ). > > > > From: syty-bounces at syty.org [mailto:syty-bounces at syty.org] On > Behalf Of Lowell Raison > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:08 AM > To: syty at syty.org > Subject: [Syty] Overboost > > > > Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the > exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT > it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code > 31 Overboost. > > > > When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this > causing the overboost? > > > > If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? > > > > Lowell > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty From lowell at raisongroup.com Thu Aug 2 19:43:47 2007 From: lowell at raisongroup.com (Lowell Raison) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:43:47 -0400 Subject: [Syty] overboost Message-ID: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Replaced the tube and checked the wastegate. It seems to be working right. Does not shut down every time, but it is not very comforting knowing it might shut off right when you need the power. When it doesn't shut down, it runs strong. Beginning to think I might need the CAT back on. Anyone know where I can get datamaster (along with tutoring in how to read it) and cable? With two Tys and no mechanics in the area it is probably time to get it. Lowell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070802/6ad18afb/attachment-0001.html From eqs at frontiernet.net Thu Aug 2 21:32:41 2007 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:32:41 -0400 Subject: [Syty] overboost In-Reply-To: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> References: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> Message-ID: <20070802223241.8f11rb87rw2swwsc@webmail.frontiernet.net> Run a high flow catalytic instead but there still something wrong there. Quoting Lowell Raison : > Replaced the tube and checked the wastegate. It seems to be working right. > Does not shut down every time, but it is not very comforting knowing it > might shut off right when you need the power. When it doesn't shut down, it > runs strong. Beginning to think I might need the CAT back on. > > > > Anyone know where I can get datamaster (along with tutoring in how to read > it) and cable? With two Tys and no mechanics in the area it is probably time > to get it. > > Lowell > > > > From tydriver at turbols6.com Fri Aug 3 01:04:49 2007 From: tydriver at turbols6.com (tydriver@gmail.com) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 01:04:49 -0500 Subject: [Syty] overboost References: <000001c7d567$5f78ab80$0401000a@hewlettmi4yof2> <20070802223241.8f11rb87rw2swwsc@webmail.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <005501c7d594$34a0d4a0$6601a8c0@ibm> I cant remember how this thread started in regards to how your truck is equipped.. If its a stock turbo/wastegate combination please read on.. If its aftermarket disregard the following. It has been common knowledge for sometime (atleast as long as I have been in SyTy's (9-10 years)) that it will overboost with the stock wastegate. Its been proven time and time again that the stock setup is "marginal" at best WITH THE CAT CONVERTER IN PLACE. I too had problems with mine wandering when I started to crank up the boost past the stock specs (even with the cat in place on my truck). The wastegate cylinder & spring setup is just too small to accomodate the pressure change with no catalytic converter in place (i.e. the exhaust flow increases enough to cause problems here). The best option is to consider aftermarket wastegate setup, or if its still available, there used to be replacement wastegate actuators that were larger than stock and helped address this problem (think it was a hybrid off a Buick setup). Most people get an external and have the internal welded up if they elect to stay with the stock setup. Hope this information helps, best of luck ! Todd '92 Ty #0488 <-- Conversion to Turbo LS6 power underway. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] overboost > Run a high flow catalytic instead but there still something wrong there. > > > Quoting Lowell Raison : > >> Replaced the tube and checked the wastegate. It seems to be working >> right. >> Does not shut down every time, but it is not very comforting knowing it >> might shut off right when you need the power. When it doesn't shut down, >> it >> runs strong. Beginning to think I might need the CAT back on. >> >> >> >> Anyone know where I can get datamaster (along with tutoring in how to >> read >> it) and cable? With two Tys and no mechanics in the area it is probably >> time >> to get it. >> >> Lowell >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > From brassmonkey at ec.rr.com Fri Aug 3 15:00:52 2007 From: brassmonkey at ec.rr.com (Mel) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:00:52 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Fw: Welcome to the "Marketing" mailing list Message-ID: <001c01c7d608$fefc79b0$b9ff3842@mgochnour> Does anyone know if this is a scam or legit? Cruzin' Mel Man Semper Fi Keep your fork ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Welcome to the "Marketing" mailing list > Welcome to the Marketing at sytynationals.com mailing list! > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > marketing at sytynationals.com > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://lists.sytynationals.com/mailman/listinfo/marketing > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > > http://lists.sytynationals.com/mailman/options/marketing/brassmonkey%40ec.rr.com > > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > > Marketing-request at sytynationals.com > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > You must know your password to change your options (including changing > the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > > moidukbu > > Normally, Mailman will remind you of your sytynationals.com mailing > list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you > prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to > unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on > your options page that will email your current password to you. From turbodig at yahoo.com Fri Aug 3 15:23:39 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Syty] Overboost Message-ID: <933733.3269.qm@web35301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The stock system, at its best, was barely able to control boost. Further, it's very finicky to system changes - the chip calibration was done for a specific fueling cal, with a specific amount of backpressure. Even in totally stock form, on a cool day at lower altitudes, you could get it to trip the overboost threshold. Sounds like you've done the easiest fix, which is to take a turn or two out of the WG rod. Making sure that the rubber hoses and plastic lines are all intact after 15 years is another very good thing. Squeeze/Bend the elbows... if they tear, they needed replacing. Another option - have someone burn you a stock chip that removes the overboost limiter. This comes with a bit of a risk- if the WG happens to sieze, and you're not watching it close, it's relatively easy to have them hit 28 psi +. On street gas this is a quick motor death. DataMaster is still available at www.ttspowersystems.com. Be advised that the program has many problems with newer laptops that don't have an on-board serial port. Later, Dig --------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:08:21 -0400 From: "Lowell Raison" Subject: [Syty] Overboost To: Message-ID: <000001c7d434$af142770$0401000a at hewlettmi4yof2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Did a tune up, including replacing the 02 sensor, and replaced the exhaust on the 93 Ty we just bought. Runs great except that at WOT it starts to run strong and then shuts down. It is showing a code 31 Overboost. When the shop replaced the exhaust they eliminated the CAT. Is this causing the overboost? If so, what is the best solution? Reinstall a CAT? Lowell -- From pbguerlain at att.net Mon Aug 6 15:18:52 2007 From: pbguerlain at att.net (Peter Guerlain) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:18:52 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Shift Cable Message-ID: <007601c7d867$01da18d0$6701a8c0@PBGDELL> Can anyone who has the original OEM transmission gearshift cable on their Typhoon tell me if it is adjustable or not? A shop replaced the original cable on my '92 Ty with an aftermarket one a couple of months ago and it hasn't shifted correctly since, binding up like crazy until the new cable broke. It looks to me like the new cable (Dorman 16662) doesn't fit correctly even though it is listed for the application, it appears to be about an inch short between the bracket and the arm on the transmission end. There is no way to adjust the cable since it has eyelets on both ends and neither the cable jacket collets or the brackets have any adjustment either. The truck wouldn't go into park so the mechanic bent the bracket towards the lever on the trans which helped it go into park but misaligned the cable so badly that it was binding and finally broke the eyelet on one end of the new cable. Since I didn't take out the original cable I don't know if it was adjustable but I'd like to know if it was. No one other than Dorman makes an aftermarket product for the application. I'd also like to know if anyone else has used the Dorman cable, with or without success. Thank you, Peter Guerlain From Mr2879sy at aol.com Mon Aug 6 16:19:41 2007 From: Mr2879sy at aol.com (Mr2879sy at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:19:41 EDT Subject: [Syty] Shift Cable Message-ID: George Blake makes a replacement cable CBLAKE3 at cinci.rr.com it's the only one I would buy marty-mj www.sportmachines.com www.syborgtwinturbo.com In a message dated 8/6/2007 3:24:11 PM Central Daylight Time, pbguerlain at att.net writes: > Can anyone who has the original OEM transmission gearshift cable on their > Typhoon tell me if it is adjustable or not? A shop replaced the original > cable on my '92 Ty with an aftermarket one a couple of months ago and it > hasn't shifted correctly since, binding up like crazy until the new cable > broke. It looks to me like the new cable (Dorman 16662) doesn't fit > correctly even though it is listed for the application, it appears to be > about an inch short between the bracket and the arm on the transmission end. > There is no way to adjust the cable since it has eyelets on both ends and > neither the cable jacket collets or the brackets have any adjustment either. > The truck wouldn't go into park so the mechanic bent the bracket towards the > lever on the trans which helped it go into park but misaligned the cable so > badly that it was binding and finally broke the eyelet on one end of the new > cable. Since I didn't take out the original cable I don't know if it was > adjustable but I'd like to know if it was. No one other than Dorman makes > an aftermarket product for the application. I'd also like to know if anyone > else has used the Dorman cable, with or without success. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070806/2766fe5f/attachment-0001.html From Invent416 at aol.com Mon Aug 6 16:30:27 2007 From: Invent416 at aol.com (Invent416 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:30:27 EDT Subject: [Syty] Bow Tie Block Message-ID: Does any one know where I can get a 4.3 Bow Tie Block with steel caps ? The GM performance catalog number is 10185051. It appears that GM has stopped making them. They have another block 2553433 but it does not have all steel caps. Just the 2 center caps are steel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob Kopelman ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070806/76d9c962/attachment-0001.html From sy1891 at cableone.net Tue Aug 7 19:33:35 2007 From: sy1891 at cableone.net (Big Dave) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:33:35 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Bow Tie Block References: Message-ID: <006b01c7d953$c17742c0$0b00a8c0@C1411337C> Try Mike Lee at RaceProvenMotors.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Invent416 at aol.com To: syty at syty.org Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:30 PM Subject: [Syty] Bow Tie Block Does any one know where I can get a 4.3 Bow Tie Block with steel caps ? The GM performance catalog number is 10185051. It appears that GM has stopped making them. They have another block 2553433 but it does not have all steel caps. Just the 2 center caps are steel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bob Kopelman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070807/f5702ed3/attachment-0001.html From gary at thesantacruzhouse.com Fri Aug 17 05:58:43 2007 From: gary at thesantacruzhouse.com (Gary H) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:58:43 -0700 Subject: [Syty] Looking to buy a smog machine Message-ID: <46C57F63.7050704@thesantacruzhouse.com> I'm thinking of buying an old smog machine to pretest my cars before taking it to the shop. The old smog machines circa 80-90's are relatively cheap now. Anyone know what to look for when buying these old smog machines? Can the old machines measure NOx (I'm sure they all can measure HC and CO)? I have absolutely no experience with these machines. Thanks, Gary From seravilo at netzero.net Fri Aug 17 14:12:21 2007 From: seravilo at netzero.net (DOlivares) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:12:21 -0500 Subject: [Syty] Looking to buy a smog machine References: <46C57F63.7050704@thesantacruzhouse.com> Message-ID: <001701c7e102$8af191e0$20406b43@coresys1> Those old sniffers by Sun and such had no capability with NOx... only unburned-HC and CO. It's been a long time, but I seem to recollect that the weakest link in those instruments was the SENSORS. They were highly susceptible to contamination, mechanical shock damage (like they do regularly on American Body Shop-- the funniest show currently on the planet!), and just plain aging. The HCs were the least durable but were wider in "bandwidth" than the solid-state versions we all drive around with in our vehicles today. Sun used to recommend a sensor-change-out every 3 years or so just on principle.... And that leads me to my recommendation for you: DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY on one of those old cabinets, unless you could get it for free or at an obscene discount, as I did... unless you're not that interested in precision and are only looking for trended results. I recall that J.C. Whippeny & Co. used to sell a portable all-solid-state tester from England for about $300 for either CO or HC. I've got it-- still new in the box-- lying around somewhere and, on paper, it looked great! That was nearly 10 years ago... but that's the way to go: Go modern technology! There's several catalog outfits that market ultra-reliable/accurate handheld gas-sensors of all types and ranges to ASHRAE, OSHA, and EPA-techs and such... or the Tenneco or Borg-Warner suppliers to the DOT bunch.... THAT'S the direction I would follow if I even cared about that crap anymore. A used/refurbished handheld unit would last you for years. D.O. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary H To: syty at syty.org Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: [Syty] Looking to buy a smog machine I'm thinking of buying an old smog machine to pretest my cars before taking it to the shop. The old smog machines circa 80-90's are relatively cheap now. Anyone know what to look for when buying these old smog machines? Can the old machines measure NOx (I'm sure they all can measure HC and CO)? I have absolutely no experience with these machines. Thanks, Gary _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070817/77565bdf/attachment-0001.html From larrybrown at prolynx.com Sun Aug 19 16:02:26 2007 From: larrybrown at prolynx.com (Larry Brown) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:02:26 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Message-ID: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> BlankHowdy (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did the Hot Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" for a fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane would be a limiting factor? The rules state: -10 gallons of 93 octane -30 mile "driving test" -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying (to avoid cheating). - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, NHRA rules (for posted times) - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" track was used with a pro tree. Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my impression that they require high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane (as they wont allow power adders other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, prochargers/superchargers are allowed. So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a small block EFI Camero won this year (a first). Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it would be neat if a SyTy could wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the detonation "factor" prohibit SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and 11s, with the 8sec ones finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears that they do have several sponsors. While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some SyTy folks, I never see owners enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. thanks in advance Larry Brown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/d9259fb3/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/d9259fb3/attachment-0001.gif From Stainless300 at aol.com Sun Aug 19 21:49:24 2007 From: Stainless300 at aol.com (Stainless300 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:49:24 EDT Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Message-ID: Hey Larry! Any direction on where and how to go about getting my wheel lock tool replaced? IT slipped off while I was putting the cap back on and now I cannot get it to work on any of my wheels. Thanks Jeff Stainless300 at aol.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/c49b69d8/attachment-0001.html From Merk1993 at aol.com Sun Aug 19 22:43:17 2007 From: Merk1993 at aol.com (Merk1993 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:17 EDT Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Message-ID: mcguard will do it. semd them a pic of your pattern and for $12...they will send you a new one. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070819/640fbef9/attachment-0001.html From sytydave at gmail.com Tue Aug 21 15:24:15 2007 From: sytydave at gmail.com (Dave Goodhue) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:24:15 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... In-Reply-To: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> References: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> Message-ID: Right off the bat 10 gallons in a fast SyTy would require a sumped tank. Obviously the lack of high boost would affect the top end of motors, however I wonder how 'slow 'the high 8's, low 9's Sy's would be running with low boost. How high of boost could they run on 93 octane? 15 psi? 17 psi? As far as I know the really fast Sy aren't running really big boost numbers (They are all under 30psi and closer to 25psi) Engine coatings could help with detonation as well as water injection, thought I suspect most of those truck utilize them already. Even with Vortec and race heads we obvious don't have the best combustion chamber for detonation. Stock Evo's peak at 21psi and settle to 17psi. I think with aftermarket tuns have them peaking 22-23 psi and running 19-20psi on pump gas. They aren't running low timing like a stock SyTy either (14 degree). Fortunately SyTy do a have a relatively good amount of displacememnt for factory turbo motor, however with an endless choice of motor in a compettition like this a turbo LS7 would have a huge advantage. I think one of the fast Sy's could place in the list given the prior times. The only race SyTy is going to kick ass is if the require real full depth street tires and don't allow drage radials.. On 8/19/07, Larry Brown wrote: > > Howdy > (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did the Hot > Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) > > It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" for a > fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, > for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane would be a > limiting factor? The rules state: > -10 gallons of 93 octane > -30 mile "driving test" > -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying (to avoid > cheating). > - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, NHRA rules > (for posted times) > - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" track was > used with a pro tree. > > Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my impression > that they require > high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane (as they > wont allow power adders > other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, > prochargers/superchargers are allowed. > So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a small block > EFI Camero won this year (a first). > > Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it would be > neat if a SyTy could > wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the detonation > "factor" prohibit > SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and 11s, with > the 8sec ones > finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). > > I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears that they do > have several sponsors. > While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some SyTy folks, I > never see owners > enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. > > thanks in advance > Larry Brown > > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070821/6a2f93c9/attachment-0001.html From larrybrown at prolynx.com Tue Aug 21 16:42:46 2007 From: larrybrown at prolynx.com (Larry Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:42:46 -0600 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... References: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> Message-ID: <00c401c7e43c$37baace0$0300a8c0@larryPC> Thanks for the Reply on PGD (pump gas drags)...I was just wondering how well a syty would do. Background: Hot Rod Mag sponsors PGD at Memphis with street/strip muscle cars/trucks. The rules call for invitation-only (300 entries, 75 selections for variety); NHRA rules for speeds you run; must have all street equipment like workig lights, horn, registration/insurance/license; vehicles must have stock or bolt on front suspension, and weight at least 3,3000 lbs. Tires no wider than 11.25 ", no wheelie bars; must pass their tech inspection, & gas is drained and filled with 10 gallons of their 93 octane; power adders such as water injection can be used, but no other fuel burned. Every competitor must complete a 30 mile drive. Once at the track each vehicle is allowed a single pass to qualify. Racers are placed on a sportsman ladder (#1 races #17, #2 races #18...) and run heads up on a pro tree. On the surface: Cars are DQ for overheating, flat tires, a lack of tire traction (due to cold track and min tire width restriction & high hp, running quicker than your safety equipment, missing the 30 mile check point, illegal front suspension. lack of track tuning and such. Then the pro tree gets alot of drivers as do the sportsman ladder system. So the fastest rarely wins, and the slowest get eliminated/beat. So in the end...the final ten usually are a mix of mid-range vehicles. Since Syclones could meet the weight, and have awd for traction, and are very consistent (almost bracket like) they "appear" to have an edge in making the top 10.... if the 93 octane doesnt kill torque, boost, and hp. With good detonation prevention (maybe some nitrous and/or water injection, engine coating, etc) a Syclone/Typhoon might be a "sleeper". Not that I plan, have or could participate, but with all of the fast syclone/typhoon vehicles and even the pikes peak Syclone, an owner might do good if they had a large tubo`d (or twin turbo`d) a/c deleted V6 (oddfire or evenfire) or V8 AWD Sy/Ty truck at this event (maybe). For some reason none of the Buick guys show up either. Its probably a wild idea, but I thought it fun to speculate. I rarely see mention of Sy/Tys at any sponsored events other than our own syty.net but do know that the Silver State, One-lap of America, Pikes Peak Race, and some autocrossing events have participants. Maybe its cuz owners dont know of such events. oh well...just delete if you find this uninteresting or stupid. I like it when I find a magazine with a Typhoon or Syclone in it (other than being advertised for sale....lol). Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Goodhue To: Larry Brown Cc: SyTy List Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... Right off the bat 10 gallons in a fast SyTy would require a sumped tank. Obviously the lack of high boost would affect the top end of motors, however I wonder how 'slow 'the high 8's, low 9's Sy's would be running with low boost. How high of boost could they run on 93 octane? 15 psi? 17 psi? As far as I know the really fast Sy aren't running really big boost numbers (They are all under 30psi and closer to 25psi) Engine coatings could help with detonation as well as water injection, thought I suspect most of those truck utilize them already. Even with Vortec and race heads we obvious don't have the best combustion chamber for detonation. Stock Evo's peak at 21psi and settle to 17psi. I think with aftermarket tuns have them peaking 22-23 psi and running 19-20psi on pump gas. They aren't running low timing like a stock SyTy either (14 degree). Fortunately SyTy do a have a relatively good amount of displacememnt for factory turbo motor, however with an endless choice of motor in a compettition like this a turbo LS7 would have a huge advantage. I think one of the fast Sy's could place in the list given the prior times. The only race SyTy is going to kick ass is if the require real full depth street tires and don't allow drage radials.. On 8/19/07, Larry Brown wrote: Howdy (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did the Hot Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" for a fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane would be a limiting factor? The rules state: -10 gallons of 93 octane -30 mile "driving test" -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying (to avoid cheating). - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, NHRA rules (for posted times) - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" track was used with a pro tree. Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my impression that they require high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane (as they wont allow power adders other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, prochargers/superchargers are allowed. So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a small block EFI Camero won this year (a first). Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it would be neat if a SyTy could wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the detonation "factor" prohibit SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and 11s, with the 8sec ones finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears that they do have several sponsors. While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some SyTy folks, I never see owners enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. thanks in advance Larry Brown _______________________________________________ Syty mailing list Syty at syty.org http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.syty.org/pipermail/syty/attachments/20070821/761c6257/attachment-0001.html From turbodig at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 21:51:58 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Syty] Re: Syty Digest, Vol 26, Issue 3 Message-ID: <955620.4846.qm@web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Re: Pump gas drags Seems like it's tough to beat big blocks in these things... raw cubes can produce more HP on lower octane. Really, a 580 inch big-block with a couple of 76bb turbos on ~18-19 psi would be tough to beat. 80e for a trans. Outside of that, a built small block with similar sized turbos, and some reeeely good heads. I think from a traction angle, you could play. Can get around the 11" tire thing, easy. Big question is the "water injection" part. Is Methanol ok, or just water? Gotta be a solid 8 second player, then back the thing off to mid 9s. We're not terribly consistent, neither are the buick guys, which is why they generally don't play. I'd still build the biggest block I could, with turbos, and the water injection. You could make 1500+ HP. Putting that to the ground, would be the big deal. Dig ----- Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... To: "SyTy List" Message-ID: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0 at larryPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" From eqs at frontiernet.net Tue Aug 21 21:54:51 2007 From: eqs at frontiernet.net (eqs at frontiernet.net) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:54:51 -0400 Subject: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... In-Reply-To: <00c401c7e43c$37baace0$0300a8c0@larryPC> References: <005001c7e2a4$40b8b830$0300a8c0@larryPC> <00c401c7e43c$37baace0$0300a8c0@larryPC> Message-ID: <20070821225451.c9vw5ycwodcgkkck@webmail.frontiernet.net> Something similar was done in the "real street eliminator" covered by car craft magazine 1992. The rules were less stringent but the syclone came in forth in this order against: 1989 mustang, 1986 corvette, 1988 supra, 1991 syclone, 1987 grand national, 1970 chevelle, 1972 cutlass, 1955 bel air, 1970 camaro, 1958 ford. The categories were: Acceleration, Slalom, Braking, fuel economy, craftsmanship, ride & Drive. Quoting Larry Brown : > Thanks for the Reply on PGD (pump gas drags)...I was just wondering > how well a syty would do. > > Background: Hot Rod Mag sponsors PGD at Memphis with street/strip > muscle cars/trucks. > The rules call for invitation-only (300 entries, 75 selections for > variety); NHRA rules for speeds you run; > must have all street equipment like workig lights, horn, > registration/insurance/license; vehicles must have > stock or bolt on front suspension, and weight at least 3,3000 lbs. > Tires no wider than 11.25 ", no wheelie bars; > must pass their tech inspection, & gas is drained and filled with 10 > gallons of their 93 octane; power adders > such as water injection can be used, but no other fuel burned. Every > competitor must complete a 30 mile > drive. Once at the track each vehicle is allowed a single pass to > qualify. Racers > are placed on a sportsman ladder (#1 races #17, #2 races #18...) and > run heads up on a pro tree. > > On the surface: Cars are DQ for overheating, flat tires, a lack of > tire traction (due to cold track and > min tire width restriction & high hp, running quicker than your > safety equipment, missing the 30 mile check point, > illegal front suspension. lack of track tuning and such. Then the > pro tree gets alot of drivers as do the > sportsman ladder system. So the fastest rarely wins, and the slowest > get eliminated/beat. > > So in the end...the final ten usually are a mix of mid-range vehicles. > Since Syclones could meet the weight, and have awd for traction, and are > very consistent (almost bracket like) they "appear" to have an edge > in making the top 10.... > if the 93 octane doesnt kill torque, boost, and hp. With good > detonation prevention (maybe some nitrous > and/or water injection, engine coating, etc) a Syclone/Typhoon might > be a "sleeper". > > Not that I plan, have or could participate, but with all of the fast > syclone/typhoon vehicles and even the > pikes peak Syclone, an owner might do good if they had a large > tubo`d (or twin turbo`d) > a/c deleted V6 (oddfire or evenfire) or V8 AWD Sy/Ty truck at this > event (maybe). For some > reason none of the Buick guys show up either. > > Its probably a wild idea, but I thought it fun to speculate. I > rarely see mention of Sy/Tys at any > sponsored events other than our own syty.net but do know that the > Silver State, One-lap of America, > Pikes Peak Race, and some autocrossing events have participants. > Maybe its cuz owners dont > know of such events. > > oh well...just delete if you find this uninteresting or stupid. I > like it when I find a magazine > with a Typhoon or Syclone in it (other than being advertised for > sale....lol). > > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Goodhue > To: Larry Brown > Cc: SyTy List > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Syty] Would a Sy/Ty do good at... > > > Right off the bat 10 gallons in a fast SyTy would require a sumped tank. > > Obviously the lack of high boost would affect the top end of > motors, however I wonder how 'slow 'the high 8's, low 9's Sy's > would be running with low boost. > How high of boost could they run on 93 octane? 15 psi? 17 psi? As > far as I know the really fast Sy aren't running really big boost > numbers (They are all under 30psi and closer to 25psi) Engine > coatings could help with detonation as well as water injection, > thought I suspect most of those truck utilize them already. > > Even with Vortec and race heads we obvious don't have the best > combustion chamber for detonation. Stock Evo's peak at 21psi and > settle to 17psi. I think with aftermarket tuns have them peaking > 22-23 psi and running 19-20psi on pump gas. They aren't running low > timing like a stock SyTy either (14 degree). Fortunately SyTy do > a have a relatively good amount of displacememnt for factory turbo > motor, however with an endless choice of motor in a compettition > like this a turbo LS7 would have a huge advantage. > > I think one of the fast Sy's could place in the list given the > prior times. The only race SyTy is going to kick ass is if the > require real full depth street tires and don't allow drage radials.. > > > > On 8/19/07, Larry Brown wrote: > Howdy > (just received my gift subscription of Hot Rod Mag and they did > the Hot Rod Pump Gas Nat`ls writeup) > > It looks like the Pump Gas Nationals would be a good "candidate" > for a fast AWD Syclone, or Typhoon, > for national exposure (in my head). But I wonder if 93 octane > would be a limiting factor? The rules state: > -10 gallons of 93 octane > -30 mile "driving test" > -No pre-qualifying at the strip; No posting times for qualifying > (to avoid cheating). > - 11 1/4 inch tire restriction, stock type front suspension, > NHRA rules (for posted times) > - I think a min approx weight of 3300 lbs and a "non-sticky" > track was used with a pro tree. > > Now I know some of SyTy owners have fast vehicles, but its my > impression that they require > high boost for max hp. Does this prevent the use of 93 octane > (as they wont allow power adders > other than water injection), altho nitrous, turbos, > prochargers/superchargers are allowed. > So it appears that really big blocks won in the past, but a > small block EFI Camero won this year (a first). > > Just curious (not that I could participate or anything), but it > would be neat if a SyTy could > wind up in the top 10 (in a contest like this). So would the > detonation "factor" prohibit > SyTy entries...(ie some of the cars/trucks entered ran 10s and > 11s, with the 8sec ones > finding traction problems, and the 9sec ones advancing to the finals). > > I dont know if there is any major prize money, but it appears > that they do have several sponsors. > While the Power Tour and the 1-lap across America draws some > SyTy folks, I never see owners > enter Craft Craft Nat`ls or Pump Gas Drags or such. > > thanks in advance > Larry Brown > > > > _______________________________________________ > Syty mailing list > Syty at syty.org > http://lists.syty.org/mailman/listinfo/syty > > > >